can light location

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jetlag

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Eatonton, Georgia
What is the best distance out from the wall for can lights over a counter top . I did some checking with a clamp on light and found if you dont come out at least 36'' from the wall the wall cabinets will cast a shadow on the counter top. 48 '' out works better because the shadow is raised up to the top of the back splash. Then on the other hand the more the cans are placed off the wall the more shadow a person in front of the c top will cause. I am using the eyeball trim and 50 watt lamps . I figure 5 cans will be enough on L shape c top with inside corner and one 14 ft wall and the other wall 10 ft .
 
jetlag said:
What is the best distance out from the wall for can lights over a counter top .
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I usually aim for 24" on center from the wall, which is usually 12" from the uppers (or 10-11" from a soffit), or whatever places them over the counter-top edge.

I did some checking with a clamp on light and found if you dont come out at least 36'' from the wall the wall cabinets will cast a shadow on the counter top. 48 '' out works better because the shadow is raised up to the top of the back splash. Then on the other hand the more the cans are placed off the wall the more shadow a person in front of the c top will cause.
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All the more reason to suggest under-cabinet lights in addition to the cans.

I am using the eyeball trim and 50 watt lamps . I figure 5 cans will be enough on L shape c top with inside corner and one 14 ft wall and the other wall 10 ft .
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Don't forget you're going to have joists in one direction.
 
I agree with Larry, it's been pretty standard around here to put them over the edge of the counter, having them out further makes them look more like room lights and takes away from the cabinet accenting they are for the most part intended for, so depending on the trusses I always try to place them around 24" out but what ever distance the trusses makes them on one wall I keep them equal distance on any other wall.

Also the counter top space under the upper cabinets is where most store things, but the cans still light up the intended work space ( the 1' out from the wall) and the shadow kind of some what hides the stuff in the storage area.
 
jetlag said:
I am using the eyeball trim and 50 watt lamps.
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I personally don't care for the Eyeball trim except for fire places and or wall washing, or maybe to highlight a hanging picture, we use open baffle with the sockets run up as high as they can go, this is so when standing across the room you don't see the light from the bulb directly, and gives a much better look. but taste are in the eye of the beholder.;)
 
hurk27 said:
I personally don't care for the Eyeball trim except for fire places and or wall washing, or maybe to highlight a hanging picture, we use open baffle with the sockets run up as high as they can go, this is so when standing across the room you don't see the light from the bulb directly, and gives a much better look. but taste are in the eye of the beholder.;)
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Same here. Unless You are doing a kitchen in 1987, ditch the eyeballs. ;)
 
electricmanscott said:
Same here. Unless You are doing a kitchen in 1987, ditch the eyeballs. ;)
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Thats odd I thought the purpose was to give good light on the counter top , you can aim the eyeballs over to it . If thats not the case why do you even put the cans over the c top . I think every one should reconsider the eye balls they can be put further out and shine back under the wall cab . Things on back off the c top will still be in the shadow. If I was using regular cans and not the eye ball I would also come out only 2 ft. The eye balls probably lost popularity from contractors trying to save money.
 
thanks larry

thanks larry

LarryFine said:
I usually aim for 24" on center from the wall, which is usually 12" from the uppers (or 10-11" from a soffit), or whatever places them over the counter-top edge.

All the more reason to suggest under-cabinet lights in addition to the cans.

Don't forget you're going to have joists in one direction.
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I know where the trusses are , I installed them at 19.2, 38.4 , 57.6 , .
 
thanks hurk27

thanks hurk27

hurk27 said:
I personally don't care for the Eyeball trim except for fire places and or wall washing, or maybe to highlight a hanging picture, we use open baffle with the sockets run up as high as they can go, this is so when standing across the room you don't see the light from the bulb directly, and gives a much better look. but taste are in the eye of the beholder.;)
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Well im having second thoughts about the eyeballs because there is no use for them if you are placing them shinning straight down on edge of c top. My idea was good about going out to 36'' and and taking away some of the shadow from wall cabs, problem is the shadow from a person standing in front of c top is a lot worse than the shadow from the wall cabs. At the popular 2 ft distance a person wont cast their own shadow on c top.
 
jetlag said:
Thats odd I thought the purpose was to give good light on the counter top , you can aim the eyeballs over to it . If thats not the case why do you even put the cans over the c top . I think every one should reconsider the eye balls they can be put further out and shine back under the wall cab . Things on back off the c top will still be in the shadow. If I was using regular cans and not the eye ball I would also come out only 2 ft. The eye balls probably lost popularity from contractors trying to save money.
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The light will NEVER shine under the cabinet. The back of the counter will always be in a shadow. This is why a good lighting plan must have undercabinet lighting.

You put the cans along the edge of the counter to shine down on the cabinets and counter top. having cabinets illuminated makes for a brighter overall space. The farther back you put them the worse off you'll be. The light will be shining on the back of your head and you will create a shadow.

I speak with close to 2,000 kitchen remodels under my belt over that last 15+ years. Not saying I know it all but I do know this type of lighting. ;)
 
I second all of the above. Putting them further than 24" means that wherever the person is standing they will be working in their own shadow (very frustrating). Have to have under cabt lighting.
 
Thanks all

Thanks all

nakulak said:
I second all of the above. Putting them further than 24" means that wherever the person is standing they will be working in their own shadow (very frustrating). Have to have under cabt lighting.
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Yes and thats why I have changed my mind and decided to go with the 24" . but just for the record you can take the shadow from the wall cabs off of the c top if you come out 48" the shadow will come down on an angle from edge wll cab to top of the back splash. there is a shadow thats true but its not on the c top itself.
 
jetlag said:
Yes and thats why I have changed my mind and decided to go with the 24" . but just for the record you can take the shadow from the wall cabs off of the c top if you come out 48" the shadow will come down on an angle from edge wll cab to top of the back splash. there is a shadow thats true but its not on the c top itself.
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Which is all fine.... until you try to do anything in the kitchen that requires seeing.
 
jetlag said:
Now back to part of my question , what is a good distance to space between the cans on the c top.
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There's no set distance. I ussally start in a cabinet corner, and make sure I can set a can the same distance from both walls/upper cabinets. That sets the distance from the wall for rest of them in each direction.

As for along-the-cabinet spacing, I usually try to center them on upper cabinet door pairs, while trying to straddle sink and range breaks. The idea is to make it look like they were located for a purpose.

If the sink will also get recessed lighting, I prefer a pair of smaller-but-otherwise-matching cans and trims, switched separately, which minimizes shadowing from the sink-user's arms. It also looks "cute."

I like the all-white Coilex-type baffle/trim. They draw the eyes up the least, on or off. Unlike many of us here, though, I still prefer 6" cans for best light spread and evenness, as well as for 'economic' reasons.
 
I have not had a designer or architect permit 6" cans on a project in at least 10 years. I use Juno 5" for basic jobs but frequently get specs for 4" or even 3" MR16 cans. Lately I have been installing just as many Fluorescent and LED's as incandescent.
 
We do a lot of kitchens and 24" from wall is standard except above sinks we go12".Lightolier 3000 series makes an adjustable trim and the are easily cut in old work with 3&5/8 hole saw.Your choice of beam spreads are good because they use 12 volt MR16 bulbs. They give a clean look and don't look like black holes.They also make a 1000 series that are cut in with a 5&1/2 hole saw that are 120volt for good general lighting. Undercabinet lighting is almost a must in any kitchen and Inchlight makes a nice product in zenon or halogen.
 
As with your other lighting question, it depends on your light and the bulb, and their dispersion pattern. A narrow spot isn't going to spread much light, unless you push it high up. A flood will throw lots of light wide, but it will be dim by the time it hits the counter if it's too high.

Your clip-on work light may or may not adequately mimic the pattern of the actual luminaire and bulb you choose.

I like to put the lights so they're centered over the outside edge of the counter top. This way, they will shine light into the drawer when the drawer is open. Closer to the wall, and they'd cause a shadow from the counter top itself, especially on lower drawers.

Also, you might want to find a different area for these posts as they're not related to the NEC.
 
jetlag said:
The eye balls probably lost popularity from contractors trying to save money.
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That would be because they are ugly.
however the 4" and 3" varieties can be nice accents.
The 6" are just hidious and should only be used when absolutley necessary.
 
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