CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

[jimwalker]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Everyone always tries to blame the other guy.Never want to say "hey i goofed"

 

[Cheryl Smith]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Actually, I am very impressed the responses and with this forum. I was amazed at how quickly I received advice from the many people who responded. I intend to use this forum more often in the future.

The question that I had in my mind all along was revisited by bthielen "BOB" regarding whether or not an inspector is liable when he/she misses the problem on the rough inspection. Apauling said "No" as well as one of the other respondents and that's what I was looking for. I was also specifically looking for the actual code that pertains to this issue which you, celtic, so graciously provided. When discussing these responses with my EC, I used the "ignorance is no excuse for the law" response as my guideline in that discussion. However, it is human to makes mistakes and this doesn't mean that my EC all of a sudden became an "unqualified" EC because of it. He's already taking the steps toward compliance and the job should be done next week.

The only comment that I found misplaced was the one regarding "The city won't be writing checks to the Smith family anytime soon". Huh???... What does the Smith family have to do with this?

On the other hand, I really got a laugh from the joke about the 15 years experience. I'm glad to see that there is a sence of humor out there.

 

[Cheryl Smith]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Jim,

: Everyone always tries to blame the other guy.Never want to say "hey i goofed"

Yeah, you're so right about that and that's exactly why I am going to bring my issues to this forum in the future, so that I can get an objective opinion from people who have no personal involvement.

Ty,

: I would suggest using the PROGRESS 'Firebox' cans for this application.

Thanks for this link. I am always looking for new suppliers.

 

[stars13bars2]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Was the ceiling on the plans as and installed as a fire rated ceiling? You know with two layers of taped and mudded 5/8" sheetrock. If so it seems (as much as I hate to say it) the EC is solely responsible. Oh yeah did the EC have these plans at bid time?

 

[Cheryl Smith]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Stars13bars2,

We've established that the EC is responsible.

Oh yeah did the EC have these plans at bid time?

Yes and there-in lies the problem. The EC should have questioned the can lights in the garage at the start. It's unusual that a customer requests can lights in the garage however, since it was an unusual situation, the EC should have asked questions. I brought it to his attention that he's usually very good about discussing any unfamiliar circumstances with the city ahead of time. The sting of a reprimand almost always inspires one to not make that particular mistake again.

I, on the other hand, am still struggling with the fact that the city gets away unscathed in this situation. I wanted so much for them to be at least partially financially responsible for the sheet rock re-work. Yes, the EC made a mistake as do other contractors whether they be general or otherwise, but I was under the impression that the city was there to catch those mistakes...well, anyway, we've been over this already. A few of the responses stated that the city is not liable for not catching the mistake and I find that difficult to accept. To me, that's like saying that everyone else has to claim their portion of the responsibility EXCEPT THE CITY. Getting the problem into compliance has been dealt with however, what of the financial responsibility of re-doing the sheet rock and paint? If the rough inspector had caught this issue at the time of the rough inspection, the EC could have made the corrections without a need for financial loss.

Roger,

that doesn't make sense, would you have a known violation (remember the NEC and most codes are for safety and the well being of people and property) be ignored because an early inspection missed a hazard to some ones life or family, yet was caught on the final?

Please don't get me wrong, I'm glad that they eventually caught the mistake and it was not our intent to "ignore" the problem. While safety is the first and foremost concern, my next concern is financial. I guess I should look at it from the viewpoint of if there had been a fire, then financially and otherwise, it would have been a lot worse. Lives are at stake.

I am overcome with an overwhelming desire to sue the city for the cost of the sheet rock and paint labor but from what I'm understanding from this forum is that the city is not liable. Admittedly, that is not the response I wanted to hear but it is what it is.

 

[roger]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Cheryl, I do hope you stay around as a participant in the forums.

When is the rework going to take place?

The cans do not have to be removed, they can be protected in a sheetrock box as pointed out by Petersonra. I can provide you with a UL assembly number and detail Monday.

Some sheetrock will still need to be removed unless there is access to the attic space above the fixtures.

Roger

[ July 23, 2005, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[George Stolz]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Originally posted by Cheryl Smith:
Apauling said "No" as well as one of the other respondents and that's what I was looking for.

Yeah, I think that's a big "no" universally. Even when it comes to wall-spacing requirements, and things of that nature that are essentially what the rough inspection is designed to catch and inspect, quite often a violation is more visible after sheetrock. The violation exists prior to the Certificate of Occupancy being issued, so the AHJ has every right not to sign off, regardless of whether or not they could have caught it on the rough.

However, it is human to makes mistakes and this doesn't mean that my EC all of a sudden became an "unqualified" EC because of it.

No kidding. I am surprised that noone has come out and said it, so I will: I would have made the same mistake. I'm glad you came along, Cheryl, because someday I will be faced with the same unusual request, and am now the wiser by you sharing this event with us.

The only comment that I found misplaced was the one regarding "The city won't be writing checks to the Smith family anytime soon". Huh???... What does the Smith family have to do with this?

I think that was an honest mistake. A hasty read of your posts may make you look like a typical homeowner, not a professional non-electrician. In the heat of the moment, an opportunity for wit overcame a clear reading of the facts, I think.

IMO, the GC is at fault. The contruction and soundness of fire-walls falls under building codes, not the NEC. The GC should have seen those 6" penetrations through his firewall and pitched a fit prior to rough inspection, IMO. A well-educated EC could have brought it to his attention, but shouldn't be expected to, IMO. Since I am the first to speak along these lines, I am probably wrong, but compelled to throw that out there to chew on.

It seems like electricians tend to have to babysit GC's operations in many cases. "Hey, the framer's haven't framed in the medicine cabinets, they didn't frame for the 'den' option that's on the extras, there's supposed to be a slider ILO a swinging door..." Goes with the job, I guess.

For fire-blocking and firewall-minded inspectors, it should have been noticed, too. That's surprising. But the AHJ has zero liability in this case.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

You could sue the ahj but i advise you not to.Even if you win you will pay for it in years to come.Win the battle and lose the war.Future inspections might be almost impossable to pass.

 

[Cheryl Smith]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Geroge,

Well then, Cheryl, welcome to the forum.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!

IMO, the GC is at fault.

That's exactly what the building official said. However, as mentioned by JimWalker,

Everyone always tries to blame the other guy.Never want to say "hey i goofed"

the GC didn't own up to it. He suggested that I charge it back to the homeowner. Absolutely not! I'd rather eat the cost.

Roger,

When is the rework going to take place?

Sometime next week.

The cans do not have to be removed, they can be protected in a sheetrock box as pointed out by Petersonra.

[QUOTE by Petersonra] seems to me that you might be able to build a fire proof drywall box and install above the cans if you had access to the area above the ceiling. i have seen this done before. they built the box and glued it in place with construction adhesive over the light fixture.

Petersonra says "if you had access to the area above the ceiling". I'm not sure if there is access to the area above the ceiling. I'd have to look into that. There is a living space over the garage thus the need for the fire-rated boxes, but other than that, I'm not sure if the living space above the garage limits the access to the area above the ceiling, if at all. Please forgive me for I am electrically challenged but, I will definitely mention this to the EC and get back to you.

 

[Cheryl Smith]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

JimWalker,

You could sue the ahj but i advise you not to.Even if you win you will pay for it in years to come.Win the battle and lose the war.Future inspections might be almost impossable to pass.

This is very good advice, one which I will definitely adhere to. It's not worth it in the long run. Thanks.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Originally posted by Cheryl Smith:

IMO, the GC is at fault.

That's exactly what the building official said. However, as mentioned by JimWalker,

Everyone always tries to blame the other guy.Never want to say "hey i goofed"

the GC didn't own up to it. He suggested that I charge it back to the homeowner. Absolutely not! I'd rather eat the cost.

That's commendable. It's probably for the best, to maintain a reputation.

I wonder though, does anyone have any "firewalls are not our responsibility" clause in their contract? It seems to me that in many instances, the other trades are required (by the GC) to adhere to codes when it comes down to firewalls.

For example, a while back at my main project, the drywallers had to tear down and re-hang much of a six-plex, as they didn't stick to the plans and hang the sheets vertically, or horizontally, whichever the plans called for.

The framers are frequently responsible for "pre-rocking" areas that are inaccessible once the structure is entirely framed, such as behind bathtubs, between units, behind fireplaces, etc. That recently came up.

It seems as though firewalled cans sometimes come up in different applications, and if the snippets I hear are true, we tend to skate out from any responsibility. Whether that involves going out to the jobearly, laying out where the cans will be and having framers or drywallers build boxes for us, or what, I have no idea. But I believe we seldom have to buy pre-firewalled cans for a job.

But this is speculative on my part.

 

[hurk27]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Here in Indiana the wall or cieling between the garage and the dwelling is not a firewall, It is a smoke barier wall to prevent exaust fumes from entering the dwelling if the home owner leaves the car running. This is in our IRC, I would have to look it up for the section. I'm not sure if it is a Indiana thing or it's in everyones IRC?

 

[iwire]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Originally posted by hurk27:
Here in Indiana the wall or cieling between the garage and the dwelling is not a firewall, It is a smoke barier wall to prevent exaust fumes from entering the dwelling if the home owner leaves the car running.

Cars don't burn in Indiana?

Especially cars left running?

 

[hurk27]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Bob I'll post the code when I get back home it's on my puter there? Yep that's what it's saying I guess?

 

[hurk27]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Here's the change in Indiana's IRC 309.2 on this:

Sec. 21. Change the title and text of SECTION R309 as follows: (a) Change the title of SECTION R309 to read as follows: GARAGES, CARPORTS, OR ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
(b) Change the text of SECTION R309.2 to read as follows: The garage shall be separated from the residence and its attic area by a smoke separation of not less than one-half (?) inch (thirteen (13) millimeter) gypsum board applied to the garage side of the framing.

Any one have what 309 says in the real IRC?

[ July 24, 2005, 03:37 AM: Message edited by: hurk27 ]

 

[jimwalker]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Not sure about others but i never been able to get my car in the garage,so no danger.

I do see one issue here thats not been hit on.Most AHJ have plan reviews before permit is issued.So why wasn't it caught or at least noted about the need of fire or smoke separation when they seen a can ? Just what did they spend time reviewing ?

Also bit confused as to why anyone would want cans in a garage.This sounds like a garage soon to be family room to me.

 

[roger]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Jim, when a reviewer sees a wall or ceiling with a rating, it will have an assembly design attached to it, what materials are used in this design would not be a concern of theirs until the final product is inspected for compliance with the assembly.

When I see a rated wall, be it a 1, 2, or 4 hour rating, it is my responsibility to use the proper materials and methods to maintain this rating, if I decide to use an "old work box" and do not secure it to a stud, I am the responsible party to repair the wall at my expense.

Roger

 

[Cheryl Smith]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Petersonra,

seems to me that you might be able to build a fire proof drywall box and install above the cans if you had access to the area above the ceiling.

I learned from my EC that unfortunately, there is no access to the area above the ceiling and I was a little embarassed because if I had thought it through, I would have realized that we wouldn't be in this pickle had there been access to the area above the ceiling.

Hurk27,

The NEC code that I received from celtic is exactly the one that pertains to this case.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
300.21 Spread of Fire or Products of Combustion.
...Openings around electrical penetrations through fire-resistant-rated walls, partitions, floors, or ceilings shall be firestopped using approved methods to maintain the fire resistance rating.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JimWalker,

Not sure about others but i never been able to get my car in the garage,so no danger.

Me neither.

Also bit confused as to why anyone would want cans in a garage.This sounds like a garage soon to be family room to me.

From what I can see, for sure they will be using it for something other than a garage though it may not be a family room per say since there is already two family rooms. But definitely something else.

I do see one issue here thats not been hit on.Most AHJ have plan reviews before permit is issued.So why wasn't it caught or at least noted about the need of fire or smoke separation when they seen a can ? Just what did they spend time reviewing ?

Good questions. I am not able to answer them. I will review Roger's response regarding these questions.

Roger,

When I see a rated wall, be it a 1, 2, or 4 hour rating

Can we choose any "hour" we want to make this compliant? So far, we have only been able to locate 1 hour boxes that have the specs they (the city) requested.

 

[roger]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Cheryl, in a residential setting the rating would most likely be no more than 2 hr, you would have to choose a fixture installation to meet this design, or if it is 1 hr you could choose a design that would be compatible at that level.

These designs can be found in the UL Orange books "Fire Resistance Directory"

Or you can try to find something on the UL Web Site The books are much easier to use.

Here is a UL tested assembly, although it will not necessarily go with your construction type, I'm just showing it as an example.

Take note of 11 through 17

The following page and all contents are Copyright ? 2005 by Underwriters Laboratories Inc.?




V.G202
Fire Resistance Ratings - ANSI/UL 263


Fire Resistance Ratings - ANSI/UL 263


See General Information for Fire Resistance Ratings - ANSI/UL 263

Design No. G202

February 02, 2005

Restrained Assembly Rating ? 2 Hr
Unrestrained Assembly Rating ? 2 Hr

1. Normal-Weight Concrete ? Carbonate or siliceous aggregate, 150 + or - 3 pcf unit weight, 4000 psi compressive strength.
2. Welded Wire Fabric ? 6X6-W1.4XW1.4.
3. Metal Lath ? 3/8 in. rib, 3.4 lb/sq yd expanded steel; tied to each joist with 4-5/8 in. long, 13 SWG galv wire lath clips, spaced 9 in. OC. Selvage overlap wire-tied with 18 SWG galv wire midway between joists.
4. Steel Joists ? Type 10J3 min size, spaced 24 or 30 in. OC and welded to end supports.
5. Bridging ? Steel bars, 1/2 in. diam welded to top and bottom chords of each joist.
6. Cold Rolled Channels ? No. 16 MSG cold-rolled steel channels, 1-1/2 in. deep used for support of air ducts and steel framing members (suspension system), where required. Channels placed on top and tied to lower chord of joists with 12 SWG galv steel wire.
7. Hanger Wire ? No. 12 SWG galv steel wire twist-tied to lower chord of joists or cold-rolled channels. When the ceiling is composed of nom 24 by 24 or 48 in. lay-in panels, hanger wires twist-tied to main runners at main runner/cross tee intersections and spaced 48 in. OC. Additional hanger wires are required at the four corners of light fixtures, at midspan of cross tees adjacent to light fixtures and to air duct outlets at cross tees nearest and parallel with walls, at cut cross tees over 2 ft long at walls and adjacent to main runner splices. When the ceiling is composed of nom 20 by 60 in. lay-in panels, hanger wires tied to main runners at main runner/cross tee intersections and spaced 40 in. OC. Additional hanger wires are required at the four corners of fixtures, at midspan of all cross tees, on cut cross tees over 2 ft long at walls and adjacent to main runner splices.
8. Air Duct ? Min 24 MSG galv steel. Total area of duct openings not to exceed 576 sq in. per each 100 sq ft of ceiling area. Area of individual duct opening not to exceed 576 sq in. Max dimension of opening 30 in. Outside face of duct outlet protected with 1/16 in. thick ceramic fiber paper. Duct supported by 16 MSG cold-rolled steel channels, 1-1/2 in. deep, spaced 32 to 38 in. OC and at air outlets.
9. Damper ? No. 13 MSG, galv steel. Protected on both surfaces with 1/16 in. ceramic fiber paper and held open with a Fusible Link. (Bearing the UL Listing Mark). Damper to overlap duct outlet 1 in. min.
10. Steel Framing Members* ? The following components of the ceiling suspension system are Classified by UL.
A. Main runners - nom 10 or 12 ft long, spaced 4 ft OC. Cross tees - nom 4 ft long, installed perpendicular to main runners, spaced 2 ft OC. When nom 2 by 2 ft lay-in panel are used, nom 2 ft long cross tees installed perpendicular to 4 ft cross tees at midspan, spaced 4 ft OC.
CGC INTERIORS, DIV OF

CGC INC ? Types DXL, DXLZ, SDXL.


USG INTERIORS INC ? Types DXL, DXLZ, SDXL.


B. For 24 by 24 or 48 in. lay-in panels.
a. Main Runners ? Nom 12 ft. long, spaced 4 ft. OC.
b. Cross Tees ? Nom 4 ft. long, installed perpendicular to main runners spaced 2 ft OC.
c. Cross Tees ? For nom 24 by 24 in. lay-in panels. - Nom 2 ft long installed perpendicular to 4 ft cross tees, spaced 4 ft OC.
BPB AMERICA INC ? Types PCH, PCS


CHICAGO METALLIC CORP ? Type 250, 1250, 1850; Type 1250 cross tees (1242 and 1244).


C. For 20 by 60 in. lay-in panels.
a. Main Runners ? Nom 10 ft long, spaced 5 ft OC.
b. Cross Tees ? Nom 5 ft long, installed perpendicular to main runners, spaced 20 in. OC.
CHICAGO METALLIC CORP ? Types 250, 1850.


10A. Steel Framing Members* ? Metal pans ? (Not shown) (Optional) ? Channel-shaped metal pans in various colors and finishes, installed perpendicular to cross tees or main runners and spaced 4 or 6 in. OC. The flange edges of the metal pans engage and interlock with the vertical tabs of the corresponding grid adapters with tabs 4 or 6 in. OC. (See Item 10B). End laps joints of the metal pans shall occur adjacent to main runners or cross tees. The metal pans shall each be supported by at least two main runners or cross tees.
CHICAGO METALLIC CORP ? Type 1650.


10B. Steel Framing Members* ? Grid adapter ? (Not shown) (Optional) ? For use with Type 1650 metal pans (See Item 10B). Angle shaped adapter with a looped return flange; installed parallel to cross tees or main runners by engaging return flange of adapter to the flange of the cross tee or main runner. The 48 or 24 in. long adapters are intended for use with cross tees or main runners, respectively.
CHICAGO METALLIC CORP ? Type 1650.


10C. Steel Framing Members* ? Filler strips ? (Not shown) (Optional) ? For use with Type 1650 metal pans. Filler strips are 0.018 to 0.024 in. thick, steel or aluminum, 13/32 or 5/8 in. deep by 3/4 in. wide, placed between the metal pans.
CHICAGO METALLIC CORP ? Type 1650.


11. Fixtures, Recessed Light ? (Bearing the UL Listing Mark). Fluorescent lamp type steel housing in sizes and types listed below:
a. Nom 20 by 48/60 in.

b. Nom 24 by 48 in.

The nom 20 by 48/60 in. fixture has a 20 by 48 in. enclosure with 6 in. flat steel extension at each end. Flat fixtures spaced so their area does not exceed 24 sq ft per 100 sq ft of ceiling area. In determining the allowable fixture area, the nom 20 by 48/60 in. fixture should be considered as having a 20 by 48 in. area. When the nom 20 by 48/60 in. fixtures are used, fixture stabilizers (Item 11A) shall be used in addition to the hanger wires, occurring at the midspan of the 5 ft long cross tees. Wired in conformance with the National Electrical Code. Fixtures and ballasts must be considered for these ambient temperature conditions before installation.

11A. Fixture Stabilizer ? (Not shown). One 20 by 48/60 in. fixture assembly. Min 0.053 in. thick (16 gauge) painted steel channel formed as a yoke, secured to the web at midspan of 5 ft long cross tee on each side of fixtures. When the Type 1650 metal pans are used (See Item 10B); One min. 0.047 in. thick (16 MSG) galvanized steel channel yoke per each light fixture, secured to the web at midspan of cross tee on each side of fixture.
11B. Fixture Stabilizer ? (Not shown) ? As an alternate to Item 11A. Min. 0.020 in. thick (25 MSG) painted steel spacer bar formed as an angle with 1 in. legs and hemmed edges and slots perpendicular to and near the ends of the spacer bar for engaging over the bulb of the tees. Engaged over the bulb at midspan of the cross tee on each side of the light fixtures and over the bulb of the adjacent cross tee.
11C. Fixtures, Recessed Light ? (Bearing the UL Listing Mark) ? (Not Shown) ? As an alternate to Item 11, incandescent lamp type, steel housing, nom 6-1/2 in. diam by 7-1/2 in. high. Each fixture provided with a nom 7-3/4 in. by 12-1/2 in. base plate screw-attached to the "high hat" fixture with three steel screws. Base plate to be provided with steel bar hangers designed to span across nom 24 in. spacing of cross tees for fixture support. Fixture secured to cross tees with steel clips provided at the end of the steel bar hangers. A max of two "high hat" fixtures may be substituted for each nom 24 in. by 48 in. fixture permitted in the ceiling (max six "high hat" fixtures per 100 sq ft of ceiling area). For use with USG Interiors, Inc. steel framing members and acoustical materials only. Wired in accordance with National Electrical Code.
12. Fixture Protection ? Acoustical Material * ? Five sided enclosure constructed from the same material as Item 13 or 13A . Top panel whose width and length are equal to the width and length of the fixture, is centered over and spaced 1-1/2 in. from the top of the fixture housing by scrap pieces of steel framing member tees. A rectangular piece of acoustical material of a length and width equal to the length and height of the fixture, respectively, is placed at each side of the fixture. Ends of the fixtures are protected by rectangular pieces covering the height from the top of main runners to the top of protection top panel by the width of the fixture. End pieces attached to the top panel with 6d or 8d, c c nails spaced approximate 6 in. OC. Where fixtures are butted end to end, the end pieces, at the butting ends, are omitted and the gap between the adjacent top panels is covered by one of the end pieces.
12A. Fixture Protection ? Batts and Blankets* ? 11/4 in. thick. Fixture protection for each flat light fixture consists of a top piece resting on spacers and two end pieces. The top piece length shall equal the long dimension of the fixture. The top piece width shall equal the top width of the fixture plus twice the width of the inclined or vertical fixture side. The top piece shall be centered over the fixture with its two sides cantilevered and allowed to drape over the fixture sides. The edges of the top piece shall be slit as necessary to accommodate hanger wires. End pieces equal to the width of the fixture by 6-1/2 in. high are held in place by slipping them between the fixture housing and the hanger wire at each corner of the fixture. In addition, the top piece shall be secured to each end piece with No. 18 SWG galv steel wire threaded through the pieces and twist-tied. When nom 20 by 48/60 in. light fixtures are used, batts shall be field-cut to cover the top of steel filler panels at ends of these fixtures (Items 11a). The spacers shall consist of scrap pieces of suspension system tees located as required to maintain a min 1-1/2 in. clearance between the top of the light fixture and the fixture protection top piece.
THERMAFIBER INC ? Type FR.


12B. Fixture Protection ? Acoustical Material* ? For use with "high hat" light fixtures (Item 11C). Five sided enclosure, rectangular in cross section, cut from the same acoustical material used in the ceiling assembly. Two side pieces measuring 8 in. high by 23-3/4 in. long resting upon ceiling tile, two end pieces measuring 6-3/4 in. high by 16 in. long resting upon steel bar hangers and one top piece measuring 14 in. by 18 in. resting upon side and end pieces with 18 in. dimension parallel with end pieces. Enclosure secured with four 8d nails installed through side pieces into end pieces near the top of the assembly.
13. Acoustical Material* ? Square or rectangular lay-in panels. Border panels supported at walls by min. 0.016 in thick painted steel angle with 7/8 in legs or min. 0.016 in thick painted steel channel with a 1 by 1-9/16 by ? in profile. Panel Dimensions Nom, In. Types
24 by 24 by 5/8 or 3/4 FR-81, FR-83
24 by 48 by 5/8 or 3/4 FR-81, FR-83
24 by 60 by 5/8 or 3/4 FR-81, FR-83
20 by 60 by 5/8 or 3/8 FR-81, FR-83
24 by 24 by 5/8 FR-4
24 by 48 by 5/8 FR-4
24 by 24 by 3/4 FR-X1
24 by 48 by 3/4 FR-X1

EMCO LTD ? Types FR-4, FR-81, FR-83, FR-X1. See Acoustical Materials (BYIT), EMCO Limited, for specific tile details.


USG INTERIORS INC ? Types FR-4, FR-81, FR-83, FR-X1. See Acoustical Materials (BYIT), USG Interiors, Inc., for specific tile details.


13A. Acoustical Material* ? (Not Shown)- As an alternate to Item 13 - Nom 24 by 24 in. by 3/4 in. thick lay-in panels. For use with Types DXL, DXLZ and SDXL steel framing members only.
USG INTERIORS INC ? Type ASTRO-FR. See Acoustical Materials (BYIT), USG Interiors, Inc., for specific tile details.


14. Hold-Down Clips ? (Not shown) ? No. 28 MSG spring steel, 1 in. wide, 1 in. high, 1/2 in. deep. Clips placed over cross tees symmetrically 2 ft OC. Where required, access clips are used in lieu of hold-down clips.
15. Alternate Recessed Light Fixtures ? (Not shown) ? As an alternate to the fluorescent lamp lighting fixture, High Intensity Discharge (HID) lighting fixture may be used on a 1 for 1 substitution basis. These fixtures are used in conjunction with the nom 24 by 24 in. acoustical panels. The fixture consists of 20 MSG or heavier steel mounting pan having 23-3/4 by 23-3/4 in. outside dimensions and a 13-1/2 in. diam opening at its center, with a 5/8 in. high stiffening return flange at all four sides. The reflector and reflector top are made of spun aluminum. The total weight of the fixture with lamp and ballast shall not exceed 40 lb. The 24 by 24 in. suspension system module containing the HID fixture shall be supported at each corner by a hanger wire. Electrical wiring of the fixture shall conform with the National Electrical Code.
16. Fixture Protection For Alternate Fixture ? (Item 15) ? (Not shown) ? Five sided box enclosure with 1 in. high opening at top of two opposite sides. Pieces cut from the same material as Item 13. Top piece is 23-3/4 by 23-3/4 in. size; two opposite side pieces each is 23-3/4 in. long by the height of the fixture plus 1 in.; remaining two opposite side pieces each is 22-1/2 in. long by the height of the fixture. Pieces assembled with 8 d nails spaced 6 in. OC.
17. Speaker Assemblies* ? (Not Shown) Optional. The speaker assemblies consist of speakers, speaker enclosures and their accessories. The ceiling penetration for the speaker enclosure shall not exceed 11-7/8 by 11-7/8 in. for the square speaker enclosures and 12 in. in diam for the round speaker enclosures. The speaker assemblies are installed in accordance with the installation instructions provided. A maximum of two 144 sq in. speaker assemblies per 100 sq ft of ceiling area is allowed.
ATLAS SOUND L P

See Speaker Assemblies For Fire Resistance (CHML) for specific Types.

*Bearing the UL Classification Mark

Last Updated on 2005-02-02

UL Listed and Classified Products

UL Recognized Components
Products Certified for Canada


This page and all contents are Copyright ? 2005 by Underwriters Laboratories Inc.?

The appearance of a company's name or product in this database does not in itself assure that products so identified have been manufactured under UL's Follow-Up Service. Only those products bearing the UL Mark should be considered to be Listed and covered under UL's Follow-Up Service. Always look for the Mark on the product.

UL permits the reproduction of the material contained in the Online Certification Directory subject to the following conditions: 1. The Guide Information, Designs and/or Listings (files) must be presented in their entirety and in a non-misleading manner, without any manipulation of the data (or drawings). 2. The statement "Reprinted from the Online Certifications Directory with permission from Underwriters Laboratories Inc." must appear adjacent to the extracted material. In addition, the reprinted material must include a copyright notice in the following format: "Copyright ? 2005 Underwriters Laboratories Inc.?"

Roger

[ July 24, 2005, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: roger ]

 

[celtic]

Re: CAN LIGHTS INSTALLED IN A GARAGE

Originally posted by celtic:

Originally posted by Cheryl Smith:
Also, isn't it the job of the rough inspector to catch these problems at the time of the rough inspection and can the city by liable for the cost of re-doing the work?

Originally posted by Cheryl Smith:


....the city gets away unscathed in this situation. I wanted so much for them to be at least partially financially responsible for the sheet rock re-work.

I don't think the city will be writing any checks to the Smith family anytime soon.

As pointed out, suing the city will be a losing battle.