Can "too many" LED fixtures on a circuit trip the breaker?

My "setting" is an apartment building with numerous LED corridor lights.
Somehow, it goes across my grain to have to restrict a LED lighting circuit to less than 300 or 400 VA because of poor driver design resulting in very excessive inrush!!!
To top it all off, the fixtures we have been using do not list inrush!
To me, the industry is a long ways from doing a good job in implementing LED's.
 
Wow 3 amps load on 15 amp circuit .

One time infound 10-15 recess led lights tripping arc fault when switch was closed too slow. Arc fault indeed sensed an arc and tripped.
 
To add insult to injury, there's the issue of power factor.
Everything I find lists "watts", but never "line amps". I need to load my circuits based on the total current flow.
 
https://iesupply.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Ballasts-and-LED-Photo-Controls.pdf (inrush about 100x)
https://www.lrc.rpi.edu/programs/solidstate/assist/pdf/assist-technote-dimming-inrushcurrent.pdf (article about repetitive peak and dimmer stress)
https://www.digikey.com/en/articles/compact-fluorescent-tribulations (failure claim on relays related to SMPS ballast)

"CSA Standard for electronic ballasts, C22.2 No. 74, has been updated in 2016 to include testing requirements that will demonstrate a means to limit peak inrush current to a pre-determined levels. Since these testing requirements will come in effect on July 1, 2018, industry should be aware of the above recommendations." and since they don't like building separate CSA and UL versions, newer LED ballasts are designed to address the inrush issue.

CFLs and some LEDs, ITEs, and the most basic power supplies operate as a DC 165v or 330v fed load. They all share the same front end which looks like the attached photo. In the most basic form, such front-end has a power factor of 0.5-0.6, which is typical of CFLs and non-dimmable LED. The idea is to use a big ass capacitor behind a fridge and have a 165v DC rail with as little ripple as possible to avoid 120 Hz flicker in light output.

When you have say... 50 14W CFLs of this topology go online all at once at the wrong time (capacitors completely discharged, and switched on just before peak crossing), the inrush current can activate magnetic trip, not thermal overload. Older power supplies over 1kW often cold started through power resistors which were shorted out with a triac or relay once capacitors have reached charge in order to prevent this kind of trip.
A large number of CFLs or some LED ballasts behave similarly. Once they're turned on, the steady state current is low enough from the perspective of magnetic trip, so you can assume they're not relevant. It's really a non-issue, because you're rarely going to have a setup where 50 CFLs are powered on all at once.

Electronic fluorescent lamp ballasts of 2000s vintage for commercial and industrial installations weren't susceptible, because they used a sizable iron core reactors on the input end to taper off the di/dt in order to raise the input power factor to above 0.9. This inductor is of such size that the ballast often ends up weighing as much as a magnetic ballast. Such a passive PFC also happen to limit inrush current.

Modern L.E.D. lamps often have a permanent 10 ohm series resistor on the input or they use very minimal capacitor and allow considerable 120 Hz flicker in the output. Flicker regulation on LED lighting systems are often dramatically inferior to T8 electronic fluorescent system and this manifests itself as noticeable flicker or stripes in photo/video. You might just see barely noticeable stripe, or the flicker content is so severe that you'll get actual black stripes.
 

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It's really a non-issue in residential, because what residential installs involve fifty L.E.D. lamps or CFLs all powered on one switch?
 
It's really a non-issue in residential, because what residential installs involve fifty L.E.D. lamps or CFLs all powered on one switch?
Take any commercial building, or in my case a multi story apartment building. Any time there is power outage, common in my area because of storms, all the building's lights turn off and back on ALL AT ONCE! Fact of life in my real world.
 
The issue is that the lamp VA rating is quite low, but the inrush VA might be quite high. This leads to a seemingly properly sized circuit that will trip the breaker if all the lamps on the circuit start at the same time.

I wonder if some sort of time delay relay could work to divide the circuits. Flip the breaker and half the lights turn on immediately, half in a second.

Jonathan

If you read my response a few posts up, it's a pretty good bet that ballasts manufactured after 2018 will have some means of controlling inrush.

CFLs that can be dimmed with in-line (not 0-10v) are quite rare, but I'd say good majority of LED screw-in bulbs are dimmable. If it's dimmable with an in-line dimmer, it won't have a simple bridge + big ass capacitor front-end, because such a design only draws current near the peak and if you know how dimmers work, it wouldn't lend itself to be dimmable by phase control.

It naturally works out that dimmable L.E.D. type fixtures and lamps have lower inrush from the way the ballast is made dimmable.

You could also informally test cold start inrush by brushing up wires together to turn on the lamp. Repeat it a few times, but let the lamp rest in off state for 5 seconds or so each time so the capacitor has a chance to bleed out. Lamps/ballasts without significant inrush won't make noticeable spark or sound. Those that do will make visible spark and quite audible pop. You could do the sequencing you suggested to keep it well below the magnetic trip of the breaker, but it's just best to use a lamp/luminaire with lower inrush LED ballast, because as explained in the Digikey article, the capacitor inrush really takes a toll on the contacts.
 
Modern L.E.D. lamps often have a permanent 10 ohm series resistor on the input or they use very minimal capacitor and allow considerable 120 Hz flicker in the output. Flicker regulation on LED lighting systems are often dramatically inferior to T8 electronic fluorescent system and this manifests itself as noticeable flicker or stripes in photo/video. You might just see barely noticeable stripe, or the flicker content is so severe that you'll get actual black stripes.
Have noticed that. Had a customer complaint about video flicker after the new LED was installed that wasn't there before with florescent. (Customer provided lights.) The florescent have flicker that are known culprit in migraine. Is the issue simply the difference in rate of flicker that is not compatible with the video camera? Would a better quality of LED change the occurrence of video flicker?
 
Have noticed that. Had a customer complaint about video flicker after the new LED was installed that wasn't there before with florescent. (Customer provided lights.) The florescent have flicker that are known culprit in migraine. Is the issue simply the difference in rate of flicker that is not compatible with the video camera? Would a better quality of LED change the occurrence of video flicker?

The LED emitter itself is DC; the flicker is caused by poor filtering on the driver circuit. So a LED lamp with better filtering will reduce or eliminate the flicker entirely. LED lamps with higher quality phosphor mixes (better color balance) and better driver circuits (better flicker performance) are specifically sold for video work.
 
The LED emitter itself is DC; the flicker is caused by poor filtering on the driver circuit. So a LED lamp with better filtering will reduce or eliminate the flicker entirely. LED lamps with higher quality phosphor mixes (better color balance) and better driver circuits (better flicker performance) are specifically sold for video work.
So cheaper the lights more the flicker
 
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