i have a job in long island new york and , would like to use 4" pvc to pull the communication wires threw , the wires are plenum rated, but a rival contractor saw the pvc in the drop cealing and and made a big mes for me, can anyone tell me if it is ok to run pvc in the drop cealing if a plenum return exists? and what artical in the 2005 code i can find it in so i can either fix this problem or make this contractor happy. please help!
can you run pvc in the drop cealing of a pleanum return?
- Thread starter desanno1
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qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
If it is a plenum used for environmental air. No,you can't run PVC.
see 300.22.B
see 300.22.B
- Location
- Logan, Utah
You can't run ridged non-metallic conduit (PVC) in a suspended ceiling that is used for return air. Take a look at 300.22(C)(1) Other spaces Used for Environmental Air.
300.22(B) is for actual ducts or plenums, a suspended ceiling that is used to convey return air would fall under 300.22(C) "Other Spaces Used for Environmental Air".
Chris
300.22(B) is for actual ducts or plenums, a suspended ceiling that is used to convey return air would fall under 300.22(C) "Other Spaces Used for Environmental Air".
Chris
qcroanoke
Sometimes I don't know if I'm the boxer or the bag
- Location
- Roanoke, VA.
- Occupation
- Sorta retired........
raider1 said:
oops! Yeah,That too!
Terrynistler
Senior Member
- Location
- Central Texas
Is this return air ducted? Not to confuse the subject but it does make a big difference if it is ducted or not. If it is ducted then the space surrounding the duct is not considered as a return
air environment, just the space inside the ducting is.
air environment, just the space inside the ducting is.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Terrynistler said:Is this return air ducted? Not to confuse the subject but it does make a big difference if it is ducted or not. If it is ducted then the space surrounding the duct is not considered as a return
Good point, in re-reading the OP this might just be a suspended ceiling and not "Other Spaces used for Environmental Air".
If this space above the suspended ceiling is not used to convey return air then PVC is allowed.
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
raider1 said:
It does sound like there is a separate duct for the cold air return but I am curious-----
Chris , is it always true that PVC is allowed in a ceiling if it isn't a plenum or does the fire rating of the building also come into play at times?
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Dennis Alwon said:
I am not aware of any NEC code section that prohibits the use of rigid nonmetallic conduit above a suspended ceiling that is not used to convey return air. I looked through 352.10 and PVC is permitted to be installed either concealed or exposed where not subject to physical damage if identified for such use.
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
raider1 said:
I was thinking more in line with building codes. Plastic toxcity, blah,blah,blah
Edit to add: The reason I ask is because I don't think I have ever seen PVC conduit in a commercial ceiling. I don't get around commercial much anymore so I probably am way off on this one.
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- Location
- Logan, Utah
Dennis Alwon said:
I am not aware of any building code that would prohibit PVC in the space above a suspended ceiling that wasn't being used for conveying environmental air.
Chris
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
Dennis Alwon said:
I'm with you on this one Dennis. PVC inside a building is a ? for me. I'm not a code guru like a lot of you, so this is just a raised eyebrow comment.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
hardworkingstiff said:
I haven't seen it done in commercial either, but the IBC and the NEC permit it.
Chris
quogueelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- new york
pvc in building
pvc in building
I have always been taught that you cannot run pvc in the ceiling of a building. I was taught that pvc burning releases chlorine gas I have been working commercial in the long island area for about 30 years and have rarely seen it in commercial buildings. As soon as you penetrate the building you must switch over to emt or something else. For network and telco wires we usually provide about a 2foot emt sleve through walls with connectors and bushings on both sides, with penetrations firestopped after pipe is placed in wall
pvc in building
I have always been taught that you cannot run pvc in the ceiling of a building. I was taught that pvc burning releases chlorine gas I have been working commercial in the long island area for about 30 years and have rarely seen it in commercial buildings. As soon as you penetrate the building you must switch over to emt or something else. For network and telco wires we usually provide about a 2foot emt sleve through walls with connectors and bushings on both sides, with penetrations firestopped after pipe is placed in wall
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- Location
- Logan, Utah
Could you show me the code section that requires this?
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
quogueelectric said:
I believe this is the reason PVC is not allowed in a Plenum Ceiling. I am not sure if it is chlorine gas but a toxic gas nonetheless
Terrynistler
Senior Member
- Location
- Central Texas
I agree. I have rarely seen it used and the exact reason is that if there were a fire then the burning pvc would put off toxic gasses that would incapacitate a person and therefore they would be rendered helpless to escape from the otherwise survivable fire.
I find this funy though also being a master plumber since we are allowed to run PVC water piping and DWV. In most of my experience it is side by side.
I do not do a lot of commercial though and can't give you a definitive answer.
I find this funy though also being a master plumber since we are allowed to run PVC water piping and DWV. In most of my experience it is side by side.
I do not do a lot of commercial though and can't give you a definitive answer.
- Location
- Logan, Utah
Correct, you can run PVC, PEX, ABS, PB ect in a commercial building, so why would electrical PVC be any different. You can't install these types of pipe in suspended ceilings that are used to convey enviromental air due to the flame and smoke charatistics, but they are allowed in regular suspended ceilings.
Chris
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
raider1 said:
Ty Chris, That answers my question.
sparkyrick
Senior Member
- Location
- Appleton, Wi
I just finished up a three story office building. All the ceilings were plenum rated. Why can the plumber run PVC for his DWV, but I can't use any PVC in that same plenum rated ceiling???
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