Car collectors barn on private property Art 511?

[infinity]

One of the problems with that is the definition of comercial. For instance in this state residential is defined. And comercial is defined as anything that's not residential.

So it's going to depend on his states definition of comercial

Commercial is a common word and does not need to be defined by the NEC. The next best thing is to ask good Ole Webster.

If the NEC wanted Article 511 to apply to all garages they wouldn't have included the word commercial in the name of the article.

 

[david]

Commercial is a common word and does not need to be defined by the NEC. The next best thing is to ask good Ole Webster.

If the NEC wanted Article 511 to apply to all garages they wouldn't have included the word commercial in the name of the article.

Your dealing with building code definitions and the administrative section of a state building code not the dictionary. As your aware the NEC defines terms and the same is true with building codes.


Take a detached garage here. If you put a meter on a residential detached garage penn power defines that as comercial for there purposes.


The building code doesn't.

Here a municipality will tell the building department what activity will define a building as a auto/ Vehicle repair garage.


If your activity gets classified that way you could file gor an appeal or a variance.


You are most likely going to stop the activity or except the clarification


Continue and you'll be sited with an order to show cause


Just the way it works the municipality decides if your activity is comercial or not

 

[infinity]

Your dealing with building code definitions and the administrative section of a state building code not the dictionary. As your aware the NEC defines terms and the same is true with building codes.

The issue is that they're applying a code article directly from the NEC that does not apply to a non-commercial garage. No one should need a definition to explain the difference between a commercial and a non-commercial garage. The NEC doesn't provide one because no definition is needed and they clearly specify that Article 511 applies only to commercial garages.

If you want to say that Article 511 is applicable to a garage then it has to be a commercial garage where someone is engaged in commerce to try and make money. Not a garage on private property where someone just likes to work on cars.

Now if the OP stated that this garage is being used for commercial work on vehicles then the application of 511 is correct.

 

[CoolWill]

Just tell him nevermind, there will be no mechanic work of any sort going on in there. It's just a storage space now. Fix the obvious violations and send him on his way. Then move the tool boxes back in and go to town.

 

[fishin' electrician]

Sickens me how some are so quick to jump on the authoritarian bandwagon.

 

[kwired]

Are titles enforceable? I don't think so.

It's unlikely anyone intended it to apply to someone's personal garage but by the letter of what the article says it covers it does.

I suppose the title is just an organizational convenience so to speak. Be more of a challenge to navigate the code without titles on not only the major portions but also the sub sections. Most if not all major section titles are backed up by a scope that tells what that section is dealing with.

That said there is lots of so called hobby shops in residential garages that at least at times fit the scope of art 511. The scope doesn't tell us how frequent those activities mentioned must occur before this section kicks in though. I think the title of the article tends to indicate the intent was probably for a place where the activity mentioned is pretty much a daily thing though.

 

[david]

A car collector has a large old barn full of cars, he's got two two lifts, looks like a regular mechanic shop on the inside.
He's had the AHJ out there and there are some violations to fix, actually lots of violations exposed NM, flying splices.

The AJH is saying Article 511 applies to this barn

and works in there every day, probably does some business.
What do you all think? Can a auto repair barn on residential property fall under Art 511?

You have an existing building. Classified as agricultural ((barn)


That would be a change in occupancy from agricultural to a garage


When you have a change in occupancy clarification everything with the new occupancy clarification has to meet all of the code requirements just as if it was new construction


You mentioned outstanding permits that where pulled that where never finales. You also mentioned a new permit pulled for the septic system that brought the inspector into a panel in the barn/garage.


You know there was a conversation about permits, and you know there was a conversation about use of the building. And code requirements

Ie ground fault, combustible air if it's heated, source of ignition if any 18 in above floor. And that applies to residential garages.


You also stated the on-site visit it was determined this building was being used as a commercial garage.

The inspectors authority is being nice if he didn't issue a stop work order.

Every property that has a building has to have the state issue a highway permit


Where is the location of the entrance and exit onto the road, based on the speed limit of the road, is there a bend or a hill. At what distance does that location become visible to on coming trafic in both directions.


Some here are arguing the inspector is wrong. Be careful it may be that the inspector is being nice


Here in PA every permit you apply for is eather a residential permit or a comercial permit. That the first thing that you decide


Unless you know for sure the inspector is wrong tred lightly