Carlon single gang box claims it holds 4 #12/2's AND a receptacle, but wait...

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wwhitney said:
90.1(A) Practical Safeguarding . . . it's not practical to sweat 0.25 in3? : - )

Cheers, Wayne
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Fair, but extremely open to interpretation. What's to say I then can't argue that it's not practical to sweat a complete fill volume of 2 cu in?
 
Is this not a calculation?

220.5 Calculations.
(A) Voltages. Unless other voltages are specified, for purposes
of calculating branch-circuit and feeder loads, nominal system
voltages of 120, 120/240, 208Y/120, 240, 347, 480Y/277, 480,
600Y/347, and 600 volts shall be used.
(B) Fractions of an Ampere. Calculations shall be permitted
to be rounded to the nearest whole ampere, with decimal fractions
smaller than 0.5 dropped.
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Dennis Alwon said:
Is this not a calculation?
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Yes. Well done. Good to see a code based substantiation for rounding.
But do I dare point out it's for... ampere based calculations? *ducks behind nearest solid object*

Why do I foresee a debate about volume being relevant to amperage, lol.
 
Jerramundi said:
Yes. Well done. Good to see a code based substantiation for rounding.
But do I dare point out it's for... ampere based calculations? *ducks behind nearest solid object*

Why do I foresee a debate about volume being relevant to amperage, lol.
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That would actually be a good thing to propose for 2023
-- which may be too late... Usually it is NOV....

It was over in Sept 10, 2020-- darn I missed it this year....LOL
 
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Jerramundi said:
*ducks behind nearest solid object*
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Here ya' go:
scared2.gif
 
There are a couple of specific "rounding" rules, but none actually apply to box fill calculations. As currently written, the box fill rules are absolute with no rounding permitted.
 
AC\DC said:
https://rexel-cdn.com/Products/AlliedMoulded/P-241QT.pdf?i=B24CAAEA-A8D2-4517-B1D2-FBA684237154
Switch to these and you can get a couple more Cu.in

Would like a single gang at 26 or 28 cu.in :) have not found any
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Almost forgot about this 30cu.in. option

www.homedepot.com

Carlon 1-Gang 30 cu. in. PVC New Work Electrical Box RD30-6R - The Home Depot

outlet box, dryer outlet box, electrical box, dryer electrical box, 1-gang outlet box, 1-gang electrical box, plastic outlet box
www.homedepot.com
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There are a couple of specific "rounding" rules, but none actually apply to box fill calculations. As currently written, the box fill rules are absolute with no rounding permitted.
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Agreed but it is there for amps and it is there for pipe fill (.8). I bet it is just an oversite
 
Dennis Alwon said:
Agreed but it is there for amps and it is there for pipe fill (.8). I bet it is just an oversite
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I am not so sure. UL 514 permits the marked volume to be rounded to the nearest 1/4 cubic inch. Not sure there is an intent to permit rounding for conductors. If you can round 0.51 to one, that is a much larger rounding in cubic inches than what is permitted for the volume marking on the box.

Even if rounding is intended to be permitted for box fill, would you use 0.5 like in 220.5 or 0.8 as in Chapter 9 notes?
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
I am not so sure. UL 514 permits the marked volume to be rounded to the nearest 1/4 cubic inch. Not sure there is an intent to permit rounding for conductors. If you can round 0.51 to one, that is a much larger rounding in cubic inches than what is permitted for the volume marking on the box.

Even if rounding is intended to be permitted for box fill, would you use 0.5 like in 220.5 or 0.8 as in Chapter 9 notes?
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IMO, it would .8 but that is all it is--my opinion-- not worth much. I wish I didn't miss the proposal this go around... Oh well if I make it to next one I'll try and remember
 
poopypants said:
Carlon B125AB
these boxes are pretty cool:
>single gang with steel stud mount or wood stud nails
>convertible from new construction to remodeler box
>internal provisions for drywall screw mounting - both vertically and horizontally
>best of all, the box nub is set to 1/2" unlike other carlon boxes that are set at 3/8"
>claims wire volume for 11 #12's. That's ground shattering for a single gang box i feel

Inside the box is stamped this:
24.5 cubic inches
12 #14
11 #12
10 #10

So my understanding of conduit wire fill and box wire fill is that the .8 remainder rule of rounding up doesn't apply to boxes, only conduits. Correct me if I'm wrong or something, but how can the manufacturer divide 2.25 (fill allowance for #12) into 24.5 (box cubic volume) and not get 10.8? Wouldn't you need to drop the .8 and be left with 10 #12's; not the manufacturer's claim of 11 #12's?

Looking at the 12 #14 shows that the remainder of .25 correctly got dropped. But looking at the 10 #10 shows the same .8 again got rounded up. Does anyone have insight to what is going on here?
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If you go to Carlon Website. It say’s that the second and third number...in the catalog number....designates the cubic inches. Thus 25 is 25 cubic inches. I realize that it is stamped 24.5.
 
HEYDOG said:
If you go to Carlon Website. It say’s that the second and third number...in the catalog number....designates the cubic inches. Thus 25 is 25 cubic inches. I realize that it is stamped 24.5.
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Unless it is one of the standard boxes with the volume shown in the code itself, the stamped marking on the box is what applies. Nothing in a catalog or other document changes that.
 
HEYDOG said:
Okay! Which stamp 24.5 cubic inches or 11 # 12 conductors. ?
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Just think of the millions of homes and businesses built in the 60’s and 70’s that have 3 #12 NM cables and a device and 2 red wirenuts in a 3”x2” x2 metal box.

Or the 3 1/2” x 1 1/2”metal octagon ceiling box with 4/5 #14 black cloth romex wires and a fixture hickey.

Amazes me how they ever got the wires in there.
 
nizak said:
Or the 3 1/2” x 1 1/2”metal octagon ceiling box with 4/5 #14 black cloth romex wires and a fixture hickey.

Amazes me how they ever got the wires in there.
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Or BX-wired homes where every receptacle in the room was fed from the ceiling box, along with the feed in and out, and a switch leg (or two). Add to that soldered joints with rubber and friction tapes.

Sometimes, there seemed to be no empty space left, as if the wires had been hammered into place.
 
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