JJWalecka
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Does the National Electrical Code apply to a Casino located on an Native American Reservation? Thank you.
Justin
Justin
Casino code question.
- Thread starter JJWalecka
- Start date
- Status
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Casino code question.
You'll have to check that one with the local AHJ. Here in WA state, we went round and round with the state on that issue. We have done all the electrical work for a casino for the last several years and they told us NO inspections by the state a couple years back. Well this didn't sit well with the state and put us right smack in the middle of their fued. The tribe and the state finally settled it and they have allowed the inspections to resume. I think their insurance carrier had ALOT to do with it.
You'll have to check that one with the local AHJ. Here in WA state, we went round and round with the state on that issue. We have done all the electrical work for a casino for the last several years and they told us NO inspections by the state a couple years back. Well this didn't sit well with the state and put us right smack in the middle of their fued. The tribe and the state finally settled it and they have allowed the inspections to resume. I think their insurance carrier had ALOT to do with it.
JJWalecka
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Casino code question.
Paul thank you.
Justin
Paul thank you.
Justin
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: Casino code question.
I thought it was common practice to build un-inspected on reservations?
[ March 06, 2005, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
I thought it was common practice to build un-inspected on reservations?
[ March 06, 2005, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: georgestolz ]
electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: Casino code question.
Keeping off color jokes to myself. Seriously this is an interesting question. Sorry I don't have the answer though.
Keeping off color jokes to myself.
Seriously this is an interesting question. Sorry I don't have the answer though.
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Casino code question.
I'll ask our onsite electrician tomorrow, who's been out there for the last 5 years, what exactly brought the tribes to again allow the inspections. Maybe he can shed some light on it.
I'll ask our onsite electrician tomorrow, who's been out there for the last 5 years, what exactly brought the tribes to again allow the inspections. Maybe he can shed some light on it.
jimwalker
Senior Member
- Location
- TAMPA FLORIDA
Re: Casino code question.
If i am not wrong it is up to every ahj to deside if they use nec or not.Some places have no inspections so who could say what they follow.In Fl our indians can pretty much call there own shots as long as they are on there reservation
If i am not wrong it is up to every ahj to deside if they use nec or not.Some places have no inspections so who could say what they follow.In Fl our indians can pretty much call there own shots as long as they are on there reservation
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- Semi-retired engineer
Re: Casino code question.
If I were the Indians and a municipality tried that on me, the next call i would make would be to someone that could supply me with a bigh enough generator to allow me to make my own juice.
AFAIK, municipalities have no say on rservations and states have very little, except what they can get by agreement and coercion.
I gather the city owns the power utility.
If I were the Indians and a municipality tried that on me, the next call i would make would be to someone that could supply me with a bigh enough generator to allow me to make my own juice.
AFAIK, municipalities have no say on rservations and states have very little, except what they can get by agreement and coercion.
milwaukeesteve
Senior Member
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI
Re: Casino code question.
If you are a contractor working for the casino, I would ask for the tribe's recommendations on dealing with local or state code issues (and any necessary permits).
As a contractor, you should have a responsibility for your installation. It may be beneficial to have an independent inspection on you work, just to cover yourself for future possible incidents.
If you are a contractor working for the casino, I would ask for the tribe's recommendations on dealing with local or state code issues (and any necessary permits).
As a contractor, you should have a responsibility for your installation. It may be beneficial to have an independent inspection on you work, just to cover yourself for future possible incidents.
JJWalecka
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Casino code question.
Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. I'm inquisitive by nature. I recently went to a Casino and was curious if the N.E.C covered Native American Reservations. The service must be massive. With the numerous restaurants, gambling machines and lighting drawing, Lord knows, what ampere I hope there was some Authority checking the installations and making sure everything is kosher.
Justin
Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. I'm inquisitive by nature. I recently went to a Casino and was curious if the N.E.C covered Native American Reservations. The service must be massive. With the numerous restaurants, gambling machines and lighting drawing, Lord knows, what ampere I hope there was some Authority checking the installations and making sure everything is kosher.
Justin
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Casino code question.
Well I found out that the WA State Dept. of Labor and Industries put the squeeze on the company I work for. Basically told the boss that they would pull his administrators license if he didn't comply. They also made all the other electrical contractors aware that they would suffer the same fate. Since we all do lots of other work off the reservation, we told the tribe that we were going to comply with the state. That then forced the tribe into signing an agreement with L&I that they would from allow the electrical inspectors on the reservation and follow the NEC and WAC rules.
The tribe has since created their own building and plumbing inspection division where they do all their own. I suspect that they will probably do their own electrical in the future.
Well I found out that the WA State Dept. of Labor and Industries put the squeeze on the company I work for. Basically told the boss that they would pull his administrators license if he didn't comply. They also made all the other electrical contractors aware that they would suffer the same fate. Since we all do lots of other work off the reservation, we told the tribe that we were going to comply with the state. That then forced the tribe into signing an agreement with L&I that they would from allow the electrical inspectors on the reservation and follow the NEC and WAC rules.
The tribe has since created their own building and plumbing inspection division where they do all their own. I suspect that they will probably do their own electrical in the future.
JJWalecka
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Casino code question.
Paul thank you.
Justin
Paul thank you.
Justin
Re: Casino code question.
Do thet get inspected by state fire marshalls or by any local fire dept.?
Just like anything else, it will take loss of life before any one cares. If what you guys said is true about no inspections or self inspections, a major event will propably happen.
I can only hope insurance companies are ordering building code complainces. That is, until they get enough money to become self insured!
Do thet get inspected by state fire marshalls or by any local fire dept.?
Just like anything else, it will take loss of life before any one cares. If what you guys said is true about no inspections or self inspections, a major event will propably happen.
I can only hope insurance companies are ordering building code complainces. That is, until they get enough money to become self insured!
paul
Senior Member
- Location
- Snohomish, WA
Re: Casino code question.
We had to go through about 8 years ago and do a bunch of work at their tribal center. The insurance company made them remove all portable heaters that were plugged into general outlets after they did an inspection. So we hard wired in some wall heaters and t-stats. As far as the fire department is concerned, I'm not sure if they have their own, or are part of the County fire department.
I do know that if they start self-inspecting, that they will have to then comply with the state standards of self inspecting, just as the cities do. Here, the state is in charge of electrical inspections, unless the cities have taken it over. Then they have to meet or exceed the state. Pretty much only the larger cities take on this responsibility. Then the cost of permits sky-rockets.
Where do federal buildings fall under? Certainly not the state or city's jurisdicstion.
We had to go through about 8 years ago and do a bunch of work at their tribal center. The insurance company made them remove all portable heaters that were plugged into general outlets after they did an inspection. So we hard wired in some wall heaters and t-stats. As far as the fire department is concerned, I'm not sure if they have their own, or are part of the County fire department.
I do know that if they start self-inspecting, that they will have to then comply with the state standards of self inspecting, just as the cities do. Here, the state is in charge of electrical inspections, unless the cities have taken it over. Then they have to meet or exceed the state. Pretty much only the larger cities take on this responsibility. Then the cost of permits sky-rockets.
Where do federal buildings fall under? Certainly not the state or city's jurisdicstion.
charlie
Senior Member
- Location
- Indianapolis
Re: Casino code question.
Other than running the back door on them, I don't see how any of our laws effect the Native Americans if they do not wish to comply. How do you think they are able to have a casino in the middle of a state where gambling is not permitted? All they have to do is fight the laws that are not required to apply to them. They are the same as an independent nation on an island in the middle of the state.
Other than running the back door on them, I don't see how any of our laws effect the Native Americans if they do not wish to comply. How do you think they are able to have a casino in the middle of a state where gambling is not permitted? All they have to do is fight the laws that are not required to apply to them. They are the same as an independent nation on an island in the middle of the state.
milwaukeesteve
Senior Member
- Location
- Milwaukee, WI
Re: Casino code question.
My suggestion is to be careful, and remember that almost everything done in regards to a tribe and their gaming compacts is political. As a contractor, don't get in the way of that. There is a lot of benefits to working at a casino. Just follow the proper steps.
Work with the tribe AND the community/state.
As for fire inspectors, they don't have jurisdiction, however, they can come through and SUGGEST things, and then write them down. If something happens and someone is hurt because of failure to follow the fire inspectors recommendations, that could end up hurting the casino and tribe worse than a possible fine could, due to bad press or possible litigation.
My suggestion is to be careful, and remember that almost everything done in regards to a tribe and their gaming compacts is political. As a contractor, don't get in the way of that. There is a lot of benefits to working at a casino. Just follow the proper steps.
Work with the tribe AND the community/state.
As for fire inspectors, they don't have jurisdiction, however, they can come through and SUGGEST things, and then write them down. If something happens and someone is hurt because of failure to follow the fire inspectors recommendations, that could end up hurting the casino and tribe worse than a possible fine could, due to bad press or possible litigation.
peter d
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Casino code question.
Justin,
These casinos wouldn't happen to have a Fox and a Sun, would they?
These casinos are massive and there is nothing haphazard or second rate about them. (I don't gamble but the sheer size of the buildings alone is incredible.) They have spared no expense on their construction, and as you can well imagine, they have no lack of customers to pay for all those buildings and facilities.
I live in Connecticut myself about 45 minutes from the casinos and I know they employ lots of electricians, union and non union alike, both in full time maintenance and through the ongoing construction there.
I don't know for sure but I think that the casinos are under the NEC and other Connecticut building codes.
Justin,
These casinos wouldn't happen to have a Fox and a Sun, would they?
These casinos are massive and there is nothing haphazard or second rate about them. (I don't gamble but the sheer size of the buildings alone is incredible.) They have spared no expense on their construction, and as you can well imagine, they have no lack of customers to pay for all those buildings and facilities.
I live in Connecticut myself about 45 minutes from the casinos and I know they employ lots of electricians, union and non union alike, both in full time maintenance and through the ongoing construction there.
I don't know for sure but I think that the casinos are under the NEC and other Connecticut building codes.
JJWalecka
Senior Member
- Location
- New England
Re: Casino code question.
Thanks to all. Peter D it does have a Fox in it .
Justin
Thanks to all. Peter D it does have a Fox in it
.Justin
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