Cat 5 OR Cat 6

[Alwayslearningelec]

If the electricians are running the cabling from tel/data jack to patch panel what is usually involved. I was tols the following....besides the obvious pulling the cable, conduit, etc. I am referring to the cable only.

1. tagging/labeling
2. punch down @ patch panel and at jack
3. test


Thanks.

 

[hbiss]

The first two are the easy parts. #3 is going to take some experience and $$$$$$.

-Hal

 

[stevebea]

The first two are the easy parts. #3 is going to take some experience and $$$$$$.

-Hal

The Ideal VDV MULTIMEDIA tester sells for about $100 and you can do a wiremap test which will test for shorts, miswires, reverse pairs, split pairs etc. and is quite easy to use. Granted, it will not do a speed test, but is a very good value.

 

[egnlsn]

I think Hal is referring to certifying the runs. Those testers are expensive. A good wiremap does not mean that an outlet will work.

 

[SmithBuilt]

I have never been ask to "certify" a run. I do however test to be sure it works with this. http://www.siemon.com/e-catalog/ECAT_GI_page.aspx?GI_ID=tt_stm-8


I'm sure there are less expensive ones out now.

 

[egnlsn]

Those STM-8s are great.

 

[hbiss]

Yup, that's the one I use also. It will check for miswires and continuity and that's about as far as I want to go. Plug something into the jack and you know it should work.

However-

Problem is some jobs where there is an IT weenie in charge he or she will want the runs certified to whatever level the cable supports (CAT5e, CAT6 etc) just to make sure they are getting their money's worth. Certification will show up all the installation mistakes like kinks, tight bends and where the conductors are not terminated properly tight to the jacks or patch panels. The simple wiremap tester like the STM-8 won't do that. These problems will not prevent a computer from working but they will act as a bottleneck to speed. Certification testers are big bucks and the results can cause you to rerun cable and reterminate.

So test depends on what "test" means to whoever you are talking to.

-Hal

 

[esobocinski]

Ultimately, the completion test (if any) should be spec'd in the contract or bid spec. If you can't find it, clarify before you bid or sign. As some of you know, an electrical performance fail can be painful to fix.

Do customers really expect you to certify your own installations? They should be bringing in a separate testing outfit if they really care.

 

[stevebea]

Ultimately, the completion test (if any) should be spec'd in the contract or bid spec. If you can't find it, clarify before you bid or sign. As some of you know, an electrical performance fail can be painful to fix.

Do customers really expect you to certify your own installations? They should be bringing in a separate testing outfit if they really care.

Agreed. On any job that I pull data lines I will do a wiremap and if the customer wants the installation certified they bring in a testing contractor. I find that the majority of the the time the customer will rarely pony up to pay for certification.

 

[Speedskater]

As Hal wrote, there is a lot more to wiring a CAT6 system than just connecting the wires and doing a continuity test. Each individual wire in a connector has a exact length and position. And the cable pull can mess up the install in countless ways. To be a CAT6 system it has to be able to pass a CAT6 speed test.

 

[hbiss]

Do customers really expect you to certify your own installations?

Sure, if you have that capability. The only reasons to bring in an independent company to certify is mainly if you are paranoid or if the installer doesn't have the capability to certify themselves. An independent company is going to be more money so it can pay to have the installer do it. Documentation is generated by the equipment for each run tested that is given to the customer. I'm not going to say that you can't cheat but any reputable company is going to stand behind their work. Plus, my opinion is that if you have the equipment to certify, if there is anything doubtful you can always pull out the certifier and test it right there and replace it if necessary before the ceiling is installed for instance. It will help you do the job right because you can see what you do wrong rather than just having someone tell you that some runs have to be replaced.

-Hal

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

So if the electrical contractor is F&I a complete tele/data system, head end etc. on each tele/data line he will have to at least do some sort of "test" on the cable? What is the "test" they do and how long does it take? Thanks very much.

 

[egnlsn]

Depends on what type of test. A simple wiremapping test takes just a few seconds since it only tests continuity.

Certifiers test: NEXT, NEXT @ Remote, Wire Map, Characteristic Impedance, Length, DC Loop Resistance, Propagation Delay, Return Loss (RL), RL @ Remote, Delay Skew, Attenuation, Attenuation-to-Crosstalk Ratio (ACR), ACR @ Remote, Power Sum ACR, PSACR @ Remote, ELFEXT, ELFEXT @ Remote, Power Sum ELFEXT, PSELFEXT @ Remote, Power Sum NEXT, PSNEXT @ Remote.

The complete test takes about a half minute per outlet and requires 2 people.

Prices of the testers are a couple hundred for a wiremapper or, depending on which one you get, a few thousand to certify.

 

[hbiss]

So if the electrical contractor is F&I a complete tele/data system, head end etc. on each tele/data line he will have to at least do some sort of "test" on the cable? What is the "test" they do and how long does it take? Thanks very much.

It all depends on what the customer wants and hopefully if there are specs it will be in there. At the very minimum on every job you need to do a basic wiremap of each run with something like the STM-8. That will tell you if your terminations are miswired or your numbering is off. That way you can walk away from the job knowing that whatever is plugged into the jack will work.

If the customer requires certification it needs to be spelled out. Do they expect you to handle it as part of the contract? If so do you have the equipment and the expertise or will you have to sub it out? Do they require an independent company to do the certification and again do you pay for it or is it not part of your contract?

As to the time required to test, with wiremap and two techs it shouldn't be much more than the time it takes a second tech to walk around the job plugging and unplugging a termination unit into each jack to be tested while the first tech stays at the patch panel with the tester. Unless it's a very small job you will usually need some means of communication like Nextel or 2-way radios. Of course you can also do it all yourself and get your exercise for the day.

Certification is more time consuming and it depends on the equipment you use. The concept is the same with a termination unit at one end and the tester at the other.

-Hal

 

[fishin' electrician]

I would hope that where the installation actually requires the certification, the customer would use a company that can perform such a test. I doubt a data center is going to hire Joe's Electric to do their network installation.

Most networks that are wired without certification, aren't likely going to need the top dog speeds, for example a p.o.s. printer terminal in a restaurant kitchen, where Joe is likely the one to do the install.

 

[zbang]

I'd be surprised if anyone was paying for a CAT6 installation and didn't expect it to actually work to CAT6 specs, and to me that means proper testing.

OTOH, I hate using the word "certified" for this- either it's tested to CAT6 specs and passes or it dosn't.

 

[SmithBuilt]

I'd be surprised if anyone was paying for a CAT6 installation and didn't expect it to actually work to CAT6 specs, and to me that means proper testing.

OTOH, I hate using the word "certified" for this- either it's tested to CAT6 specs and passes or it dosn't.

Interesting, in my area I've seen quite a bit of 6 installed and never tested to specs. Certified probably isn't the best term. But I would never assume a 6 system is required to be tested. It's all up the customer. Some just want to be able to say "we installed all cat 6 wiring" for the prestige and some want the wire there for the future even though they are not capable of utilizing it now.

 

[hbiss]

I would hope that where the installation actually requires the certification, the customer would use a company that can perform such a test. I doubt a data center is going to hire Joe's Electric to do their network installation.

Now you're starting to sound like me.

-Hal

 

[grich]

...
Prices of the testers are a couple hundred for a wiremapper or, depending on which one you get, a few thousand to certify.

I think we dropped about 8-grand for our Fluke DTX-1800 test set. Corporate wanted everything certified, so we do...even 3-foot pre-made patch cables (and it failed a couple of them). Hasn't failed any cables I've installed.

 

[fishin' electrician]

Now you're starting to sound like me.

-Hal

Thanks for the warning, I mean laugh.