CCC's & Adjustments

[Alwayslearningelec]

So I'm seeing this note(s) more rather than the standard "no more than 3 CCC's in a raceway". Engineers becoming a little smarter or less lazy or both.

 

[infinity]

Seems like boiler plate garbage. #10 solid for more than 3 CCC's? Where do they get this stuff?

 

[CoolWill]

The people who write this stuff have never turned a single wire nut in their entire lives. They have to write SOMETHING, or else they'd be out of a job.

 

[electrofelon]

Seems like boiler plate garbage. #10 solid for more than 3 CCC's? Where do they get this stuff?

The people who write this stuff have never turned a single wire nut in their entire lives. They have to write SOMETHING, or else they'd be out of a job.

Serious question not rhetorical: So who do you think actually comes up with all this masterbatory stuff? I would guess it's typically some engineering firm?

 

[CoolWill]

Serious question not rhetorical: So who do you think actually comes up with all this masterbatory stuff? I would guess it's typically some engineering firm?

Probably a lawyer.

 

[PD1972]

Serious question not rhetorical: So who do you think actually comes up with all this masterbatory stuff? I would guess it's typically some engineering firm?

Assuming these notes are specifically for 20A branch circuits, this seems like a note from an engineer/designer who is unaware that you may derate from the 90 degree column when using THHN/THWN-2. The derating math works out for a 20A branch circuit if there is a 20A limitation for #12s and a 30A limitation for #10s instead of 30A/40A respectively.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Seems like boiler plate garbage. #10 solid for more than 3 CCC's? Where do they get this stuff?

I agree but I do think they assumke most homeruns will have more than #9 CCC so #10's would be correct for 20A circuit.

 

[infinity]

I agree but I do think they assumke most homeruns will have more than #9 CCC so #10's would be correct for 20A circuit.

But if you're assuming more than 9 why say more than 3? Some of these designs are a tremendous waste of money.

 

[NoahsArc]

#10s might be to avoid vdrop and reduce long-term costs?
I agree it's mostly nonsense, why even bother hiring an electrician or using a code book if the GC knows better?

 

[ggunn]

The people who write this stuff have never turned a single wire nut in their entire lives. They have to write SOMETHING, or else they'd be out of a job.

It's like a software interface designed by someone who never has to use it.

 

[Rock86]

Don't hate me... I don't agree entirely how the note is written, but we find that on many job sites ECs will pack a 2" conduit longer than 24" with conductors and think its okay. I don't agree that they should be limiting the contractor to #10s for 4 or more conductors... but some responsibility has to be taken into account for the EC knowing the codes and not accounting for the adjustment factor on their builds.

 

[infinity]

Don't hate me... I don't agree entirely how the note is written, but we find that on many job sites ECs will pack a 2" conduit longer than 24" with conductors and think its okay. I don't agree that they should be limiting the contractor to #10s for 4 or more conductors... but some responsibility has to be taken into account for the EC knowing the codes and not accounting for the adjustment factor on their builds.

Sure contractors do all sorts of dumb things but that why you need to have someone checking their work before they get paid. The nonsense in the OP is a colossal waste of someone's money.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

Seems like boiler plate garbage. #10 solid for more than 3 CCC's? Where do they get this stuff?

Sure contractors do all sorts of dumb things but that why you need to have someone checking their work before they get paid. The nonsense in the OP is a colossal waste of someone's money.

Would you guys actually follow that note about no more than 9 ccc's in raceway?

 

[infinity]

Would you guys actually follow that note about no more than 9 ccc's in raceway?

If your contract has a clause for value engineering then you can suggest not following those requirements and install per code to save money. If you're installing separate neutrals how stupid is it to only have 4 circuits in a raceway.

 

[Alwayslearningelec]

If your contract has a clause for value engineering then you can suggest not following those requirements and install per code to save money. If you're installing separate neutrals how stupid is it to only have 4 circuits in a raceway.

Why would separate neutrals matter in regards to circuit qty? I know there more wires but don't understand your point

 

[infinity]

Why would separate neutrals matter in regards to circuit qty? I know there more wires but don't understand your point

You stated no more than 9 CCC's in any raceway. If you have (4) 2-wire circuits that's 8 CCC or the maximum of 4 circuits. If you pull (5) 2-wire circuits that's 10 CCC's and you've exceeded their magic number of 9.

 

[Elect117]

Can I ask if this is an Electrical Engineer or possible a civil or architect?

I wouldn't put language like that on a drawing. Maybe a table that combines the derating and some common wire sizes for the project. Or I would specify the circuit conductor size, voltage drop, conduit size, etc.

It sounds like something an Architect would put or a Civil Engineer who just got his stamp.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

Would you guys actually follow that note about no more than 9 ccc's in raceway?

That is a code requirement in the Chicago Electrical Code. No idea if it is in the NYC code.

 

[infinity]

That is a code requirement in the Chicago Electrical Code. No idea if it is in the NYC code.

It's not in the NYC electrical code.