CEE or Bonding of foundation steal ?

Status
Not open for further replies.
acrwc10 said:
I thought this situation would raise some oppinions.:) The AHJ is going to accept this as the GEC/ CEE. What I am still woundering is even if you have the ground rods and if this connection was not acceptible as a GEC shouldn't the foundation steal still get bonded ?
Click to expand...

If the steel isn't a grounding electrode why do you think that it would require bonding?
 
infinity said:
If the steel isn't a grounding electrode why do you think that it would require bonding?
Click to expand...

Equalize potential.
I know with the new requirements for pools and the near by concrete there is need for additional bonding, I was not sure if there was a need for it without a pool. Seems to me that if the code is saying you need to use the foundation steal when accessible they may want it bonded at a minimum ?
 
acrwc10 said:
Good eye Marc, what you can't see in this photo is there is a piece of pressure treated ply cut to the size of the panel that is mounted to the wall , to give the stucco something to stop at and leave the required 1/4" air space behind the panel. The large box to the left is for the Cable/phone guys.

I thought this situation would raise some oppinions.:) The AHJ is going to accept this as the GEC/ CEE. What I am still woundering is even if you have the ground rods and if this connection was not acceptible as a GEC shouldn't the foundation steal still get bonded ?
Click to expand...

Bond all available grounded metal and forget it....although I won't be chipping away any concrete just so I can bond the re-enforcing steel...unless I'm made to:grin: .

steve
 
cschmid said:
when we get the job and you have foundation already poured and finished.. we have no idea what is in it..we were not contacted before the pour to install it..we will not chip away and connect to some thing that is unknown..use the other available means and move on..
Click to expand...


I would NOT pass this job if I was an inspector nor should any inspector with any competence.

With that logic you could build a house complete without wiring and then show up and say it's existing I don't have to do anything.
 
electricmanscott said:
I would NOT pass this job if I was an inspector nor should any inspector with any competence.

With that logic you could build a house complete without wiring and then show up and say it's existing I don't have to do anything.
Click to expand...

There is no requirement that a house have electrical, only that if there is an electrical system it meet the requirements of the NEC. :)
 
iwire said:
In the NEC, but I bet your building department will not give a CO without electricity.
Click to expand...

Ask the Amish if that is true.
 
yes the CEE is required to be used, but if it got missed or broken, do you guys think jack hammering the footing to get to the rebar and maybe comprising the footing is the answer, drive two ground rods & forget about it, and have a long talk with the contractor to prevent it in the future
 
mpd said:
do you guys think jack hammering the footing to get to the rebar and maybe comprising the footing is the answer,
Click to expand...

No and I don't see how that can comply without knowing the rebar you dig out actually qualifies.

In MA the GC could be forced to dismantle and rebuild the footing.

Read the last paragraph of this...


CEE_Page_1.jpg
 
iwire

around here the building inspector is responsible for the CEE inspection, by the time I would inspect the building is built, and I am not telling anybody to jackhammer a footing to get to the rebar at that stage of construction
 
Bob - in the second paragraph of that is says unless it is an existing building - so I hope you're not doing it on foundations installed prior to 2005?
 
iwire said:
No and I don't see how that can comply without knowing the rebar you dig out actually qualifies.

In MA the GC could be forced to dismantle and rebuild the footing.

Read the last paragraph of this...


CEE_Page_1.jpg
Click to expand...


I would question if they would let you pour a 20' long CEGE next to the building or footing rather then dismantle the new footing. In all honesty I wish all AHJ's would take a hard line like Stow Mass. has. It would force the GC's to take more responsibility for coordination of the job, and weed out the hacks.
 
iwire

the consequences could be severe, do you no anybody who has had to dismantle and rebuild a footing?
 
Around here if some dopey GC forgets the CEE he gets to dig a hole deep enought for me to get down to the side of the bottom of the foundation - where he has chipped out and cleaned the rebar to have another form put on and poured. Or with some smoothing of feathers of the Electrical Inspector, the GC gets a reaming - and he'll play nice next time. (that was back when we first started to require them) And then only because the Building Inspector allowed the foundation to be poured without the Electrical Inspectors signature. Now I'll be called at the last minute with trucks waiting so I can go in and 'call something' an "Electrode" - and fanagle my inspector to sign off. Those who have had this 'waiting of the trucks' to pour are sure to call me way ahead of time now.... FYI - it does get you in to bid earlier as before they would not even call for bids untill they started framing....
 
if you as an electrical inspector require a GC to jackhammer a footing to expose the rebar, do you also notify the building inspector & the engineer or architect that designed the footing
 
mpd said:
if you as an electrical inspector require a GC to jackhammer a footing to expose the rebar, do you also notify the building inspector & the engineer or architect that designed the footing
Click to expand...
That has come into play here - as mentioned earlier in the thread. I not being an Inspector...

On another note - to some what you did is structual damage - and a reduction in strength of the area as it is not poured as a solid continous mass - reguardless of any patching. Which is why many local AHJ add an exception for existing foundations. For liablities sake I would check with an engineer on the job prior to doing it again. (Even if it is in a 1-2 story in a non-siezmic zone)
Click to expand...
 
mpd said:
iwire

the consequences could be severe, do you no anybody who has had to dismantle and rebuild a footing?
Click to expand...

No, I have not heard of any.

But the point is MA has put this in the hands of the Licensed construction contractor. It is the GCs responsibility to hire an EC to get the steel bonding done just like the GC has to make sure purk tests are done and the DEM sign is posted and so on and so on....

It is not supposed to be the ECs problem to make something happen before they are even hired. :smile:
 
iwire

I agree it all comes down to lack of planning and there are no excuses, its the same as the 100ft long trench that gets backfilled by accident, before it is inspected, we all know it was not by accident there just hoping they don't have to dig it up and the inspector will give them a break
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top