Ceiling Access using lift out HVAC diffusers.

[PowerLink]

Hello all, been about 100 years since I posted a question here.

We have completed a lighting installation in a hard lid ceiling the same way we always have. We utilize the HVAC diffuses as access points to our J boxes and reach out to the many track lights at finish. The diffusers are 24"X24" "lift out" type with no screws. They also provide access to the "air balance" damper valves which are directly above the diffusers.

The 2011 code, 314.72D is very clear in that access simply must not require removal of any "Fixed Part" or "Structure" of which the diffusers in question are certainly not "Fixed" or buried in "Structure".

The inspector and his boss(verbally) claim that J-boxes may not be placed in or cause the removal of "other trades work".
The correction reads; "Can not use air ducting diffusers for access to electrical boxes above a hard lid."
In speaking to him, he stated his reasoning is that the ductwork may separate when access is attempted.
My response was that the air balance damper valves are up there. He said that the dampers would only be accessed once. I replied that access to our J boxes would be exactly zero after track installation and before the diffusers are installed.

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

Power Link

 

[jumper]

314.72(D) is for boxes containing conductors over a 1000V.

314.29, which states the same thing, is for under 1000V.

I do not see the diffusers as part of the building finish. A lot of time boxes/connections are stuffed behind mechanical stuff you gotta move/remove to get at them.

 

[Ponchik]

IMO, it is accessible.

The diffuser is not part of the building finish. If you have to remove sheetrock then we got an issue.

I guess the same inspector will fail final electrical because you have to remove a lighting fixture in order to get to the wiring in the box?

 

[PowerLink]

IMO, it is accessible.

The diffuser is not part of the building finish. If you have to remove sheetrock then we got an issue.

I guess the same inspector will fail final electrical because you have to remove a lighting fixture in order to get to the wiring in the box?

Thanks for reply. We have built literally hundreds of high end retail stores over the last 30 years utilizing the diffusers and this is the first time myself or our GC's and Supers have heard anything like this.

Please keep your ideas and comments coming as I am going to need lots of documentation and backup to counter the pride-full inspectors of their reluctance to consider clear code an common sense.

Paul

 

[GoldDigger]

I guess the same inspector will fail final electrical because you have to remove a lighting fixture in order to get to the wiring in the box?

I think a more accurate analogy would be a plumber having to remove a light fixture to get to a valve.
Would you trust an HVAC tech to remove and replace a can light? Would he trust you to move and replace a diffuser that is attached to a flexible duct?
Would your answer be different for a return air grille with no ducts in an environmental air space?
Regardless of the answers above, I do not see a code violation though.

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

 

[Ponchik]

I think a more accurate analogy would be a plumber having to remove a light fixture to get to a valve.
Would you trust an HVAC tech to remove and replace a can light? Would he trust you to move and replace a diffuser that is attached to a flexible duct?
Would your answer be different for a return air grille with no ducts in an environmental air space?


Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk

Regardless of the answers above, I do not see a code violation though.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

If you and I or the plumber can not or are not comfortable enough to remove another trade's installed equipment to get to our equipment, then we should not touch it. But our inability does not make it inaccessible.

 

[JFletcher]

Hello all, been about 100 years since I posted a question here.

We have completed a lighting installation in a hard lid ceiling the same way we always have. We utilize the HVAC diffuses as access points to our J boxes and reach out to the many track lights at finish. The diffusers are 24"X24" "lift out" type with no screws. They also provide access to the "air balance" damper valves which are directly above the diffusers.

The 2011 code, 314.72D is very clear in that access simply must not require removal of any "Fixed Part" or "Structure" of which the diffusers in question are certainly not "Fixed" or buried in "Structure".

The inspector and his boss(verbally) claim that J-boxes may not be placed in or cause the removal of "other trades work".
The correction reads; "Can not use air ducting diffusers for access to electrical boxes above a hard lid."
In speaking to him, he stated his reasoning is that the ductwork may separate when access is attempted.
My response was that the air balance damper valves are up there. He said that the dampers would only be accessed once. I replied that access to our J boxes would be exactly zero after track installation and before the diffusers are installed.

Thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks again!

Power Link

Until someone wants more/less air, or the space is abandoned, that damper is shut, or a larger fan is installed, and the entire system has to be rebalanced.

The j-box is accessible. Can light jboxes are accessible, and they require removing a lightbulb and screws to the can.

If this is a thing he wont let go, cut in an Oatey 8x8" (or larger if you have to get your body up there) access panel right next to the grill.

 

[iwire]

I guess the same inspector will fail final electrical because you have to remove a lighting fixture in order to get to the wiring in the box?

Exactly.

This is another case where someone is trying to use a safety code as an excuse to enforce thier opinions on how things should be done.

 

[iwire]

I think a more accurate analogy would be a plumber having to remove a light fixture to get to a valve.
Would you trust an HVAC tech to remove and replace a can light? Would he trust you to move and replace a diffuser that is attached to a flexible duct?

There is nothing in 314.29 about trust so that is not relevant in my opinion.

 

[PowerLink]

Exactly.

This is another case where someone is trying to use a safety code as an excuse to enforce thier opinions on how things should be done.

I don't see how a "safety code" is relevant here either as the air-balance damper is also up there which requires access.
I've now spent my weekend scouring the internet, searching for some/any obscure code which would provide standing for this inspector and have found none.
Access is access. Even difficult access such as a box under a refrigerated display or a heavy piece of milwork over a floor plug. Both are "other trades" and both require a physical action to gain access.