Ceiling breaker

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hhsting

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Glen bunie, md, us
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I have plans for system furniture that uses 4 circuits, 8 wires system, 2#10 neutrals 2#12 ground 4#12 phase. Have note that reads:

Systems furniture power feed. Junction box above ceiling with 4 pole circuit breaker in ceiling for system furniture and wires to existing circuit breaker.

Can the 4 pole circuit breaker in ceiling? I have never heard of this. If not then what code section? If yes then what code section?
 
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MyCleveland

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Cleveland, Ohio
hbiss
Would this be different than having a disconnect (HO) above ceiling ?

My question is why is this being spec’ed.
What CBer is serving these bc wires ?
Can you even buy a 4P 20 and put it in a nema 1 enclosure ?
 
DrSparks

DrSparks

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hhsting said:
I have plans for system furniture that uses 4 circuits, 8 wires system, 2#10 neutrals 2#12 ground 4#12 phase. Have note that reads:

Systems furniture power feed. Junction box above ceiling with 4 pole circuit breaker in ceiling for system furniture and wires to existing circuit breaker.

Can the 4 pole circuit breaker in ceiling? I have never heard of this. If not then what code section? If yes then what code section?
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They probably mean a disconnect? I would call the engineer and clarify. Plans stamped by an engineer do not supercede code.

Also, disconnects are oftentimes located above ceilings. On top of modular walk in coolers is one example.

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hhsting

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Glen bunie, md, us
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MyCleveland said:
This has to be a case where the engineer is unfamiliar with pre-wired office furniture.
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Yea called the engineer was told that he called his electrician to check out in site.

The electrician said their is no 4 pole breaker in ceiling installed

Geez! Would it kill the engineer to actually go to site before applying for permit and actually read whats in the plans! I mean thats why they are hired! Not to put random things in plans


I bet all you master electrician become frustrated most plans you see I bet you would say this is garbage in field. I just don’t know how you can work with engineers
 
mopowr steve

mopowr steve

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I think that the engineers punctuation may be a little off.
It’s probably meant to say the junction box is to be in the ceiling fed by a 4 pole breaker at the panel elsewhere.

And I can’t think of a reason why it needs to be a 4 pole breaker. If anything just two ( handle tied or double pole breakers ) would take care of the MWBC that these pieces of furniture are wired as.
 
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MyCleveland

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Location
Cleveland, Ohio
hhsting said:
Yea called the engineer was told that he called his electrician to check out in site.

The electrician said their is no 4 pole breaker in ceiling installed

Geez! Would it kill the engineer to actually go to site before applying for permit and actually read whats in the plans! I mean thats why they are hired! Not to put random things in plans


I bet all you master electrician become frustrated most plans you see I bet you would say this is garbage in field. I just don’t know how you can work with engineers
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OUCH
 
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MyCleveland

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Location
Cleveland, Ohio
mopowr steve said:
I think that the engineers punctuation may be a little off.
It’s probably meant to say the junction box is to be in the ceiling fed by a 4 pole breaker at the panel elsewhere.

And I can’t think of a reason why it needs to be a 4 pole breaker. If anything just two ( handle tied or double pole breakers ) would take care of the MWBC that these pieces of furniture are wired as.
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Just guessing, but most likely a 3P + 1P dedicated cct it how most are done, if the building is 3 phase.
 
M

MyCleveland

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Location
Cleveland, Ohio
hhsting said:
I meant some engineer their are very good ones of course but some are just out their not sure where they get this stuff
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NO supervision; however, there is a trend right now where guys that have been in factories or industrial areas with PEs are trying to lauch design offices with zero experience.
 
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hhsting

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Location
Glen bunie, md, us
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Junior plan reviewer
Their is no such thing as 4 pole breaker for sure.

I wonder are their handle ties for four single pole breaker? How many poles of breaker can handle ties can handle?
 
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hillbilly1

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North Georgia mountains
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Owner/electrical contractor
hhsting said:
Yea but how can you install that in panelboard? Any USA style one can insert in panelboard?
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You don’t install it in a panel board, you said engineer said it was to be above the ceiling. Do you have a panel above the ceiling? Manufacturer probably has an enclosure for this too. It just mounts on din rail. This is probably to meet the disconnect rule where you cannot handle tie circuits from two different panels. Does the prints show all four circuits from one panel? Or three from one panel, and one from another?
 
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hhsting

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Location
Glen bunie, md, us
Occupation
Junior plan reviewer
hillbilly1 said:
You don’t install it in a panel board, you said engineer said it was to be above the ceiling. Do you have a panel above the ceiling? Manufacturer probably has an enclosure for this too. It just mounts on din rail. This is probably to meet the disconnect rule where you cannot handle tie circuits from two different panels. Does the prints show all four circuits from one panel? Or three from one panel, and one from another?
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See post #9 engineer said their is no breaker on ceiling.

Now yes he is stating 4 pole breaker in the panelboard. Yes print now show panelboard all four have handle ties single pole breaker.

So I was wondering handle ties how many can be handled? Four five breakers in paneboard
 
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