Ceiling fan box

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workingman

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anyone know how to spot a fan rated box on a existing install without it being labeled as such. i am not sure as the fixture is on the first floor of a two story house. i would like to avoid cutting the drywall to see if it is supported correctly but that mat be my only option. if anyone has any options as an easy way to do this let me know please
 
If it's a newer house and was wired by an electrician, I'm sure it is a fan rated box. There are several types of fan rated boxes out there so what I would do is first of all, check the entire interior of the existing box for any labeling. If that doesn't give you a definative answer, I'd go to your local supply house or home improvement store and take a look at their fan boxes to see for yourself how they are constructed and try to match what you are dealing with. If that points to a non fan rated box, for your situation where there is no attic access, there is a fan box with an expandable brace that is designed to snug up to the floor joists with small penetrating points that are driven into the joists during the expansion process. That would be the way to go. Just remove the old box and put this in its place.
 
thanks for the info, i checked it out. Who ever wired the house when it was built was a moron. its my neighbors house and i have done some work over there before so i wasn't sure what to expect. but to my surprise the box was supported by a 2X4 with nails. at least he had it straped to a 2x4. anyway i put some heavyduty screws in it and slapped a fan up and i'm gone. thanks
 
m73214 said:
If it's a newer house and was wired by an electrician, I'm sure it is a fan rated box.
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I would not assume that.

Fan rated boxes are not required for fans.

Using a fan rated box is just a design decision to be made by the installer. 8)
 
iwire said:
m73214 said:
If it's a newer house and was wired by an electrician, I'm sure it is a fan rated box.
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I would not assume that.
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I agree with that. I wouldn't expect a fan box holding up ceiling lights.

Fan rated boxes are not required for fans.

Using a fan rated box is just a design decision to be made by the installer. 8)
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While technically correct, that's misleading because it fails to mention that a fan rated box isn't required only if the fan is independently supported.

314.27(D) and 422.18[/quote]
 
Mike03a3 said:
Fan rated boxes are not required for fans.

Using a fan rated box is just a design decision to be made by the installer. 8)
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While technically correct, that's misleading because it fails to mention that a fan rated box isn't required only if the fan is independently supported.

314.27(D) and 422.18
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Well we will have to agree to disagree. :)

IMO it is misleading to say a fan box is required at fan locations. :p

All you have to do is run screws onto the structure to support the fan and you can forget the fan rated box.
 
In my area, ANY ceiling box that is likely to accomodate a ceiling fan or heavy light fixture requires a fan rated box. We are talking bedrooms, dining rooms etc. Makes sense to me.
 
m73214 said:
In my area, ANY ceiling box that is likely to accommodate a ceiling fan or heavy light fixture requires a fan rated box. We are talking bedrooms, dining rooms etc. Makes sense to me.
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I hear that a lot.

Do they also make you run a 3 wire from the switch box to any ceiling box that might get a fan

Have you seen this written done anywhere as a local amendment?

Have you read the NEC requirement?

It is very likely that the inspectors in your area are requiring an item that is not actually required by code.

You are certainly free to install them if you like, but unless there is a local written amendment you are not required to.
 
Yeah Bob...We also run a second switch leg to the fan boxes just in case. It only costs a few more bucks and I guess it could be considered an investment for the future should the need arise. No, I don't believe I can refer to a code article in the NEC but as I said before, it makes sense to me. I've had to crawl trough countless attics to install bracing for a ceiling fan or chandelier and would have appreciated very much if the electrician that did the rough in would have thought about me.
 
m73214 said:
No, I don't believe I can refer to a code article in the NEC but as I said before, it makes sense to me. I've had to crawl trough countless attics to install bracing for a ceiling fan or chandelier and would have appreciated very much if the electrician that did the rough in would have thought about me.
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Being courteous or thoughtful is not the same as required.

An inspector can not (or should not) require items that are not required by code no matter how much sense it may make to you, me or the inspector.

If a inspector feels fan boxes are needed every where they should put in a proposal.

By the way, a piece of thread rod with a lag adapter screwed into the subfloor above keeps you out of the crawl spaces. :wink:
 
iwire said:
Mike03a3 said:
Fan rated boxes are not required for fans.

Using a fan rated box is just a design decision to be made by the installer. 8)
Click to expand...

While technically correct, that's misleading because it fails to mention that a fan rated box isn't required only if the fan is independently supported.

314.27(D) and 422.18
Click to expand...

Well we will have to agree to disagree. :)

IMO it is misleading to say a fan box is required at fan locations. :p

All you have to do is run screws onto the structure to support the fan and you can forget the fan rated box.
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What is misleading about this?: 314.27(D) Boxes at Ceiling-Suspended (paddle) Fan Outlets. Outlet boxes or outlet box systems used as the sole support of a Ceiling-suspended (paddle) fan shall be listed, shall be marked by their manufacturer as suitable for this purpose, and shall not support ceiling-suspended (paddle) fans that weigh more than32kg (70 lb.), the required marking shall include the maximum weight to be supported.

This article clearly states that if a fan is supported by the box a fan box is needed. While it is true that it is also legal for a fan to be independently supported at the location of a light box, if the plans are calling for a "fan outlet" ( an outlet at which fans can be hung) a fan box needs to be used.

If the plans call for a light outlet then, at the time the fan is hung the fan needs to either be independently supported or the box needs to be changed.
 
if the plans are calling for a "fan outlet" ( an outlet at which fans can be hung) a fan box needs to be used.
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Why? I could use a regular box and support the fan independently and still be code compliant. I agree with Bob.
 
bshep said:
This article clearly states that if a fan is supported by the box a fan box is needed.
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Correct



bshep said:
While it is true that it is also legal for a fan to be independently supported at the location of a light box,
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Where does 314.27(D) say anything about 'light boxes' or anything about any location that independent support is allowed or disallowed?

bshep said:
if the plans are calling for a "fan outlet" ( an outlet at which fans can be hung) a fan box needs to be used. .
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Where do I find this requirement?

It is either independent support or the listed fan box and when the NEC allows a choice it is up to the installer not the inspector to decide what method they want to use.
 
I havnt used fan rated boxes in over 5yrs. I install $1.25 pancake boxes directly to underside of joist with drywall screws at rough in, then when i hang the fan , I screw (2) #10's 3inches long through fan bracket then through pancake box, into joist. you could easily swing your body weight from it. and it only cost a buck
 
scwirenut said:
I havnt used fan rated boxes in over 5yrs. I install $1.25 pancake boxes directly to underside of joist with drywall screws at rough in, then when i hang the fan , I screw (2) #10's 3inches long through fan bracket then through pancake box, into joist. you could easily swing your body weight from it. and it only cost a buck
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I have done this in the past too. This is the basis of Bob's argument that there is no code requirement to use these boxes unless it's supporting the fan. Some inspectors have been requiring them where it is "likely" that a fan may be installed. This is not supported by the NEC. As you've stated there are other installation practices that are code compliant.
 
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