Ceiling Fan Switch

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jap said:
Could we loosely use 430.81 (a) and use the breaker in the panel ?

JAP>
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420.81 is about motor controllers. The pull chain switch IMO is a motor controller on such a fan.

The thing is probably an appliance - motor operated appliance, so art 422 applies - but 422 does direct you to 430 for many things related to motor operated appliances. These are also typically under 300 VA and under 1/8 HP and the branch circuit device is allowed to be the disconnecting means.
 
Looking at this from a logical point of view and not necessarily from a Code compliant view, if you use the breaker as the only means of disconnect that would mean that the true disconnect means (in almost all cases) is remote from the paddle fan location. So, let's say that the paddle fan develops a problem and starts burning up and smoking. Do you want to have to go into the room and pull the control chain on the fan 4 times to shut it off or would you rather walk over to a wall switch to disconnect the power ? By the same token, would you want to walk a distance to wherever the breaker panel is and shut the breaker off that hopefully is marked "paddle fan(s)" ?

Now, getting back to the Code, wouldn't this section apply to this situation ? :

430.75 Disconnection.
(A) General. Motor control circuits shall be arranged so
that they will be disconnected from all sources of supply
when the disconnecting means is in the open position. The
disconnecting means shall be permitted to consist of two or
more separate devices, one of which disconnects the motor
and the controller from the source(s) of power supply for
the motor, and the other(s), the motor control circuit(s)
from its power supply. Where separate devices are used,
they shall be located immediately adjacent to each other.
 
Ceiling Fan Switch

Installation instructions on some remote controlled Casablanca fans where the holder for the remote screws onto a standard switch box tells the installer to remove the wall switch and splice the hots together. The normal resting spot for the remote is now where the wall switch used to be.

My daughter's new home has a fan like this.
 
retirede said:
Installation instructions on some remote controlled Casablanca fans where the holder for the remote screws onto a standard switch box tells the installer to remove the wall switch and splice the hots together.
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I understand that, but just because the manufacturer's instructions state that you should do that doesn't make it Code compliant. Just saying :roll:
 
goldstar said:
Looking at this from a logical point of view and not necessarily from a Code compliant view, if you use the breaker as the only means of disconnect that would mean that the true disconnect means (in almost all cases) is remote from the paddle fan location. So, let's say that the paddle fan develops a problem and starts burning up and smoking. Do you want to have to go into the room and pull the control chain on the fan 4 times to shut it off or would you rather walk over to a wall switch to disconnect the power ? By the same token, would you want to walk a distance to wherever the breaker panel is and shut the breaker off that hopefully is marked "paddle fan(s)" ?

Now, getting back to the Code, wouldn't this section apply to this situation ? :

430.75 Disconnection.
(A) General. Motor control circuits shall be arranged so
that they will be disconnected from all sources of supply
when the disconnecting means is in the open position. The
disconnecting means shall be permitted to consist of two or
more separate devices, one of which disconnects the motor
and the controller from the source(s) of power supply for
the motor, and the other(s), the motor control circuit(s)
from its power supply. Where separate devices are used,
they shall be located immediately adjacent to each other.
Click to expand...

Well, for the first part above,a disconnect is not meant to be an emergency power off device so we can throw that out.
The pull chain switch doesn't actually have an "Off" position indicated on it so I'd throw that out.
If using the 2 or more disconnects as separate devices they would have to be immediately adjacent to each other so we can throw that out.

I'd say the breaker in the panel can serve as a disconnecting means and therefore would not require a control switch in the wall.
But that's just me.

JAP>
 
jap said:
Well, for the first part above,a disconnect is not meant to be an emergency power off device so we can throw that out.
The pull chain switch doesn't actually have an "Off" position indicated on it so I'd throw that out.
If using the 2 or more disconnects as separate devices they would have to be immediately adjacent to each other so we can throw that out.

I'd say the breaker in the panel can serve as a disconnecting means and therefore would not require a control switch in the wall.
But that's just me.

JAP>
Click to expand...
Because the fan is less then 300 VA or 1/8 horsepower.

422.31(A) or if you don't think art 422 applies then see 430.109(B), both sections permit the branch circuit device to serve as the disconnecting means.
 
kwired said:
Because the fan is less then 300 VA or 1/8 horsepower.

422.31(A) or if you don't think art 422 applies then see 430.109(B), both sections permit the branch circuit device to serve as the disconnecting means.
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I thought that's what I said. :huh:

JAP>
 
jap said:
I thought that's what I said. :huh:

JAP>
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You never once mentioned the 300VA or 1/8 HP, that is the key that allows it to use the branch circuit device as the disconnecting means. If you had a ceiling fan that was 1 HP (go to bigassfans.com if you want to see several that are well over 1/8 HP) you would need a disconnecting means within sight of the appliance/motor, and very possibly withing sight of the controller as well.
 
kwired said:
You never once mentioned the 300VA or 1/8 HP, that is the key that allows it to use the branch circuit device as the disconnecting means. If you had a ceiling fan that was 1 HP (go to bigassfans.com if you want to see several that are well over 1/8 HP) you would need a disconnecting means within sight of the appliance/motor, and very possibly withing sight of the controller as well.
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I've installed a few and have yet to see a big ass fan with a pull chain on it. :)

JAP>
 
jap said:
I've installed a few and have yet to see a big ass fan with a pull chain on it. :)

JAP>
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For a classic look they should put pull chain switches on them - and use chain with 5/16" or 3/8" links.

Could put a hoist type chain reel on there and make it turn a potentiometer for speed control.:cool:
 
kwired said:
For a classic look they should put pull chain switches on them - and use chain with 5/16" or 3/8" links.

Could put a hoist type chain reel on there and make it turn a potentiometer for speed control.:cool:
Click to expand...

Now your talkin..... :thumbsup:

Jap>
 
retirede said:
Many, including mine, are direct wired by design. The circuit breaker in the panel is the only disconnect.
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Again they are typically under 300 VA or 1/8 HP, so that is allowed.

The combination microwave/range hoods always have a cord/plug factory installed.
 
kwired said:
Again they are typically under 300 VA or 1/8 HP, so that is allowed.
Click to expand...

So I guess if you have multiple fans on one circuit that add up to more thand 300 VA or 1/8 HP Your out of luck.

Jap>
 
jap said:
So I guess if you have multiple fans on one circuit that add up to more thand 300 VA or 1/8 HP Your out of luck.

Jap>
Click to expand...

I don't think so. As is worded none of them require a disconnect within sight, so the branch circuit device that may not be within site is permitted to serve as the disconnecting means.

If you want to have the ability to disconnect one but not the others - that is outside of NEC requirements but can certainly be done.
 
So, not to get too far off the mark here, if you use the breaker as the sole disconnect means would you now also need a breaker lock as well ?
 
goldstar said:
So, not to get too far off the mark here, if you use the breaker as the sole disconnect means would you now also need a breaker lock as well ?
Click to expand...
NEC doesn't require one.

Your safety policy may still require you to use a lock of some sort. This is where those non permanently attached locking devices have a purpose, any lock provision required by NEC has to remain attached whether in use or not.
 
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