ceilng fan rated boxes

[Riograndeelectric]

I looked at Job last week were customer wants to install 3 ceiling fans on the existing wiring and boxes.
the house was built in the 1950s and was wired using metal boxes and EMT.
so my question is the ceiling boxes are 4" octagon metal box supported by a raco 8325 http://www.hubbellcatalog.com/raco/RACO_datasheet.asp?PN=8325&FAM=RacoBoxes

.

I am wondering if I tap the mounting holes to 10/32 thread would this be sufficient for ceiling fans.
I know this would not be UL approved but figure with this being a metal octagon box supported by an adjustable brace I could mount the fans to the existing boxes.

 

[480sparky]

............I am wondering if I tap the mounting holes to 10/32 thread would this be sufficient for ceiling fans.
I know this would not be UL approved.........

I think you just answered your own question.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

I think you just answered your own question.

yes but the ul listing does not have any bearing on the saftey of this installation

 

[480sparky]

yes but the ul listing does not have any bearing on the saftey of this installation

How is modifying equipment not listed for a specific use make it safe for that use?

 

[SEO]

If you tapped the box you would be in violation of 110.3 (B). Can you support the fan so that the box is not the sole means of support? Look at section 314.27 (D).

 

[480sparky]

If you tapped the box you would be in violation of 110.3 (B)........

Installing a fan on that box & hanger assembly would still be a violation whether or not you tap the threads or not.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

If you tapped the box you would be in violation of 110.3 (B). Can you support the fan so that the box is not the sole means of support? Look at section 314.27 (D).

I wish I culd do this.
the boxes lay in bteween joit space.
trying to figure out a way not to have to replace the boxes or add new fan rated box next to exsting box?

 

[electricmanscott]

I have done exactly what was described and have not lost a minute of sleep over it.

I have also used long screws driven into the support bar which is now supporting the fan independently from the box.

Or replace the box with a fan rated box mounted to the existing bar.

 

[infinity]

If you can independently support the fan the box can stay as is. We sometimes run a long lag bolt through the box into the wood above.

 

[SEO]

Installing a fan on that box & hanger assembly would still be a violation whether or not you tap the threads or not.

I agree if the box were the sole means of support which according to the OP is what he wants to do. He could cut the hangers out and install a fan safe bracket and fan box.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

I agree if the box were the sole means of support which according to the OP is what he wants to do. He could cut the hangers out and install a fan safe bracket and fan box.

the problem with replacing the box and bracket is thet the system is installed with EMT and this makes a little harder to tear out.

 

[480sparky]

the problem with replacing the box and bracket is thet the system is installed with EMT and this makes a little harder to tear out.

Charge more for the job.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

I have done exactly what was described and have not lost a minute of sleep over it.

I have also used long screws driven into the support bar which is now supporting the fan independently from the box.

Or replace the box with a fan rated box mounted to the existing bar.

I never thought about driving long screws thru the support bar. I think this is what I will do .
Thanks.
Cameron

 

[Riograndeelectric]

Charge more for the job.

that would be nice but when you are competing with other 1-2 man shops for the job the customer will go with the lowest price, most customer do not care about codes safety etc, just the lowest price.

 

[480sparky]

that would be nice but when you are competing with other 1-2 man shops for the job the customer will go with the lowest price, most customer do not care about codes safety etc, just the lowest price.

I don't throw what I know to be a safe installation out the window just to be able to do the work. If someone else wants to hire a hack, there's plenty out there willing to do so and I will not compete with them.

 

[Riograndeelectric]

I don't throw what I know to be a safe installation out the window just to be able to do the work. If someone else wants to hire a hack, there's plenty out there willing to do so and I will not compete with them.

Agreed!! but I know this doe snot comply with code but I would feel safe by running long screw thru the box and into the mounting bracket. I am sure there have been time where you have had to modify something that then doe meet the UL listing but is still safe

 

[iwire]

but I know this does not comply with code but I would feel safe by running long screw thru the box and into the mounting bracket.

That can meet the code, if you run a long screw / lag through the fan mounting bracket and pass through the box the fan is now supported independently of the box which meets the code without the need for a listed fan box.

The only time a listed fan box is required by the NEC is when only the box supports the fan.

 

[jumper]

That can meet the code, if you run a long screw / lag through the fan mounting bracket and pass through the box the fan is now supported independently of the box which meets the code without the need for a listed fan box.

The only time a listed fan box is required by the NEC is when only the box supports the fan.

I do not understand, 110.3(B) says follow listed or labeled instructions. Info sheet says UL at 50lbs. and manufacturer instructions say 15 lbs. and not to be used for ceiling fans. Which is correct?

 

[iwire]

I do not understand, 110.3(B) says follow listed or labeled instructions. Info sheet says UL at 50lbs. and manufacturer instructions say 15 lbs. and not to be used for ceiling fans. Which is correct?

Now I do not understand.

If you use the box to support the fan it must be a listed fan box.

If you use the building structure to support the fan you do not need to use a fan box.

 

[jumper]

Now I do not understand.

If you use the box to support the fan it must be a listed fan box.

If you use the building structure to support the fan you do not need to use a fan box.

If a person screws to the brace and not the structure, what is the listing of the whole device? I understand screwing to the building means independent support, but others stated screwing to the brace. Is the rating not for both?