CFL fire hazard!

[barone]

Is there a dimmer installed

Is there a dimmer installed

If there is a wall dimmer installed as the switch for that light, the ballast in a CFL retro lamp will burn like crazy. I have heard of this same problem around 5 times now from 5 different people and they all had the new self ballasted CFL that the guy at Home Depot told him was great, and they screwed it into a lamp holder that was on a dimmer. FIRE HAZARD - YOU CAN NOT DIM A SELF BALLASTED CFL LAMP FROM A STANDARD WALL DIMMER!!!! That should be right on the top of the front of the package!

This may or may not be your problem but thought it was good to mention here due to all the fires it is causing.

 

[jflynn]

Caution!!! CFL's (compact florescent lights) can be a fire hazard!

Last night my Mom called and said "please come quick a light is on fire!" I rushed to their house and the ballast in the CFL had caught fire, the whole house smelled like a burned ballast. It was lucky they were awake when this happened, she may not have got it turned off in time. The ceiling tiles around the light were scorched.

If it had been a plain old incandescent bulb it would have just stopped working!

With this info -maybe I should think twice about keeping fixtures with CFL;s on while not at home,- to keep the house illuminated...

 

[mxslick]

I have cut open a burned out Sylvania CFL, it was surprisingly well constructed and showed no signs of burning or overheating. I will get a pic or two to share here.

 

[Davids1964]

I just had a sylvnia cfl lamp go up in smoke in my bedroom. Good thing my wife was in the room. I still can't belive I only got lest than two years out of that CFL.

 

[ItsHot]

Junk!

Junk!

More Chineese JUNK!

 

[MarkyMarkNC]

FIRE HAZARD - YOU CAN NOT DIM A SELF BALLASTED CFL LAMP FROM A STANDARD WALL DIMMER!!!! That should be right on the top of the front of the package!

How about the ones marked as dimmable?

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...Id=10053&productId=100653116&N=10000003+90401

As for myself, I love the CFL's. More specifically, the $25.00 a month I save on my electric bill. I have them in ALL of the fixtures in my house asides from the enclosed mushroom lights in my hallway. I have dimmable CFL's in all of my fan light kits. They look a bit ugly in my vanity lights in the bathroom, but other than that, I am a big fan.

 

[tomP]

This is a GE (made in China) CFL that was mounted horizontaly in a fixture.
No fire but really smelled bad.

 

[Jraef]

That is "normal" for a CFL at the end of its life span. They have a design that acts essentially like a fuse when the ballast gives out and it burns the plastic base for a moment when it opens. But on NRTL Listed CFLs, the plastic is self-extinguishing as well, like Fire Stop material, so that it does NOT actually catch on fire, defined as open flame that can cause combustion of nearby materials (lampshades mainly). it blackens, smokes for a few seconds, then it's dead.

Scary for a lot of people though, the industry needs to do a much better job of educating people about that.

 

[tomP]

That is "normal" for a CFL at the end of its life span. They have a design that acts essentially like a fuse when the ballast gives out and it burns the plastic base for a moment when it opens. But on NRTL Listed CFLs, the plastic is self-extinguishing as well, like Fire Stop material, so that it does NOT actually catch on fire, defined as open flame that can cause combustion of nearby materials (lampshades mainly). it blackens, smokes for a few seconds, then it's dead.

Scary for a lot of people though, the industry needs to do a much better job of educating people about that.

I agree with you, however I failed to add that this lamp was in the fixture less than one year.
I really don't think that CFL's are providing the savings they are advertised as doing.

 

[mxslick]

That is "normal" for a CFL at the end of its life span. They have a design that acts essentially like a fuse when the ballast gives out and it burns the plastic base for a moment when it opens. But on NRTL Listed CFLs, the plastic is self-extinguishing as well, like Fire Stop material, so that it does NOT actually catch on fire, defined as open flame that can cause combustion of nearby materials (lampshades mainly). it blackens, smokes for a few seconds, then it's dead.

Scary for a lot of people though, the industry needs to do a much better job of educating people about that.

(Bold/italic added by me.)

Am I the only one who thinks it's WRONG for a "Normal failure mode" to incorporate burning and the release of any smoke?

What the industry needs to do is not worry about educating the public that burning plastic and smoke is normal, but rather work on a design that ends its life WITHOUT smoke or burning.

And what the heck is wrong with the NRTL's laying down on the job with this? If I designed a projector control that has the same end-of-life issues you can bet your bippy that it would never get the approval.

 

[Jraef]

Am I the only one who thinks it's WRONG for a "Normal failure mode" to incorporate burning and the release of any smoke?

What the industry needs to do is not worry about educating the public that burning plastic and smoke is normal, but rather work on a design that ends its life WITHOUT smoke or burning.

And what the heck is wrong with the NRTL's laying down on the job with this? If I designed a projector control that has the same end-of-life issues you can bet your bippy that it would never get the approval.

NRTLs test and approve products based on one thing: will they or will they not create a safety hazard, usually defined as a fire hazard. If a product doesn't start a fire or otherwise endanger someone or something, the NRTL is obliged to approve it, whether or not it is a good quality product. The running joke is that you can get UL to list a bathtub as a bus bar as long as it doesn't start a fire. That's whay I also laugh when these "energy saver" scam artists highlight the fact that they have UL approval on their capacitor, implying that UL has ensured that it works. All UL has said is that it's not likely to burn down your house.

In my opinion the people who are ultimately responsible for product quality are the consumers! If it's a piece of cr@%, don't ever buy it again, and take it back to the retail outlet, and complain loudly. I just did that yesterday with an article of clothing that only lasted 2 months before the fabric started to wear through. I took it back and bitched, turns out the retailer has had a rash of complaints and offered a full refund, no questions asked, adding that they had canceled all future shipments from that supplier.

But people don't do that enough; they gripe and complain to their spouses and friends but then the next time they need one, they shop with their wallet again. This issue of people complaining about cheap Chinese goods and then shopping at Wal-Mart or the Dollar Store because things cost less there shows me just how disconnected from reality so many of us have become. Unfortunately it has become so rampant that quality mfrs end up going out of business, leaving only the cr@% to select from...

Sorry, got on my soap box again. I am not directing my comments to anyone specific, it's a cultural thing...

 

[mxslick]

NRTLs test and approve products based on one thing: will they or will they not create a safety hazard, usually defined as a fire hazard.

The failure modes of most cfl's ARE a fire hazard...the simple fact that it allows melting or flame to escape the housing creates a fire hazard..and the smoke liberated isn't exactly safe either...

If a product doesn't start a fire or otherwise endanger someone or something, the NRTL is obliged to approve it, whether or not it is a good quality product. The running joke is that you can get UL to list a bathtub as a bus bar as long as it doesn't start a fire.

Then that reveals a serious shortcoming in the standards that the NRTL's are setting. And cfl's have already been causing fires....hmmmm....

In my opinion the people who are ultimately responsible for product quality are the consumers! If it's a piece of cr@%, don't ever buy it again, and take it back to the retail outlet, and complain loudly.

To a point, I can agree with this. Yes it is true that consumers do create a market for the cheap products flooding our stores, but that in NO WAY excuses the manufacturers OR the NRTL's from their responsibility to ensure the product is SAFE!!!

Sadly though, most consumers don't take the time to complain, they'll just throw the item away and get another one...

Unfortunately it has become so rampant that quality mfrs end up going out of business, leaving only the cr@% to select from...

And that is the real problem. But IF the safety standards were enforced with more effect, then the only things available would be the quality products and the consumers would either have to pony up to the (price) bar or do without.

I just did that yesterday with an article of clothing that only lasted 2 months before the fabric started to wear through. I took it back and bitched, turns out the retailer has had a rash of complaints and offered a full refund, no questions asked, adding that they had canceled all future shipments from that supplier.

Good for you, that was the right thing to do. But in the context of this discussion not a relevant example..I seriously doubt that the wearing out of the fabric was going to have the potential to start a fire or otherwise endanger your life or that of anyone else.

Sorry, got on my soap box again. I am not directing my comments to anyone specific, it's a cultural thing...

Can't imagine Dr. Evil getting on a soapbox... :roll:

 

[tomP]

NRTLs test and approve products based on one thing: will they or will they not create a safety hazard, usually defined as a fire hazard. If a product doesn't start a fire or otherwise endanger someone or something, the NRTL is obliged to approve it, whether or not it is a good quality product. The running joke is that you can get UL to list a bathtub as a bus bar as long as it doesn't start a fire. That's whay I also laugh when these "energy saver" scam artists highlight the fact that they have UL approval on their capacitor, implying that UL has ensured that it works. All UL has said is that it's not likely to burn down your house.

Maybe the electrician or electrical contractor KNOWS this as a fact, however the general public thinks that the item is SAFE because of the UL approval or listing.
The smell of this particular CFL ?lingered? for quite some time. Maybe it wouldn?t ever start a fire, but I wouldn?t bet my loved ones lives on it.

In my opinion the people who are ultimately responsible for product quality are the consumers! If it's a piece of cr@%, don't ever buy it again, and take it back to the retail outlet, and complain loudly. I just did that yesterday with an article of clothing that only lasted 2 months before the fabric started to wear through. I took it back and bitched, turns out the retailer has had a rash of complaints and offered a full refund, no questions asked, adding that they had canceled all future shipments from that supplier.

But people don't do that enough; they gripe and complain to their spouses and friends but then the next time they need one, they shop with their wallet again. This issue of people complaining about cheap Chinese goods and then shopping at Wal-Mart or the Dollar Store because things cost less there shows me just how disconnected from reality so many of us have become. Unfortunately it has become so rampant that quality mfrs end up going out of business, leaving only the cr@% to select from...

What person keeps his receipt for a product or for that matter even remembers where he bought it a year or two later?
You, my friend, must have a very elaborate filing system!
I will continue to educate all people on the problems, real or perceived of this product.
I do not wish to have that smell, let alone the possibility of a fire in the house of any one I know or do business with.

 

[weressl]

That is "normal" for a CFL at the end of its life span. They have a design that acts essentially like a fuse when the ballast gives out and it burns the plastic base for a moment when it opens. But on NRTL Listed CFLs, the plastic is self-extinguishing as well, like Fire Stop material, so that it does NOT actually catch on fire, defined as open flame that can cause combustion of nearby materials (lampshades mainly). it blackens, smokes for a few seconds, then it's dead.

Scary for a lot of people though, the industry needs to do a much better job of educating people about that.

I wonder if the smoke is reviewed for toxicity?

Could you show me a reference link where this can be substantiated? I would appreciate any help in this, thanks in advance.

 

[Jraef]

I wonder if the smoke is reviewed for toxicity?

Could you show me a reference link where this can be substantiated? I would appreciate any help in this, thanks in advance.

I saw it about a year ago when I attended a seminar on CFLs put on by Sylvania (I have nothing to do with CFLs, but it counted as "career development training units" for me). They were essentially decrying this issue as a cheap way out for the off-shore (translate Asian) manufacturers. Sylvania uses a more sophisticated system that costs more. But they pointed out that as sad as the design criteria is, it did pass the basic minimum UL flammability test.

I'll look for my notes from that meeting, maybe they supplied a link.

 

[Jraef]

From my meeting notes:

UL's take on it: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/newsroom/storyideas/compactfluorescentlamps/

And Energy Star's: http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3147

 

[weressl]

From my meeting notes:

UL's take on it: http://www.ul.com/global/eng/pages/corporate/newsroom/storyideas/compactfluorescentlamps/

And Energy Star's: http://energystar.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/energystar.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=3147

Thank you Dr. Evil, you're a peach.....:smile:

 

[bobsherwood]

We had one smoke yesterday. Southern Methodist University is using CFL's in all cases, we have hundreds and only one smoking failure. Hummm... now wondering how safe are they?

 

[weressl]

We had one smoke yesterday. Southern Methodist University is using CFL's in all cases, we have hundreds and only one smoking failure. Hummm... now wondering how safe are they?

As Chicke D'Little said: the sky is fallin, the sky is falling.......

Hint: Both Energy Star and UL say it is their normal way to fail. Would UL approve a product that is unsafe?

 

[mxslick]

As Chicke D'Little said: the sky is fallin, the sky is falling.......

Hint: Both Energy Star and UL say it is their normal way to fail. Would UL approve a product that is unsafe?

UL hasn't always been perfect, no NRTL has been, they can and do make mistakes.

What the industry needs to do is not worry about educating the public that burning plastic and smoke is normal, but rather work on a design that ends its life WITHOUT smoke or burning.

And what the heck is wrong with the NRTL's laying down on the job with this? If I designed a projector control that has the same end-of-life issues you can bet your bippy that it would never get the approval.

I reiterate, and am I the ONLY one here with any common sense, that ANY product that fails while releasing smoke/fumes as a NORMAL FAILURE MODE is a SAFE PRODUCT?! No way.

Sheesh people, get with reality. Of course, a lot of electrical items may release smoke during an ABNORMAL failure, but not too many do so as a NORMAL failure mode.

And before someone points out that motors can fail by smoking, remember what we're talking about here: an item, in the hands of ordinary consumers, in their living spaces, not a motor in an industrial/commercial setting under at least some form of supervision.

I have to say that in a forum of such high-calibre professionals, I am dismayed to read the opinions of some who think that cfl's going up in smoke at end-of-life is "acceptable."

It would NOT be that difficult or expensive to add a fuse or thermal device to prevent the smoking at end of life.