CFLs in recessed cans

[Energy-Miser]

Hello all,
A potential customer who is looking to install recessed lighting has asked me if the regular recessed cans are ok to receive compact fluorescent lamps. She likes the type of CFL's that are enclosed in a globe, and look like incandescents at first glance. I told her that I will reseach this for her. Do you have to use specially made recessed cans? Do the CFL's have to be rated for recessed application? BTW, I replaced all or our recessed lights at home with the garden variety CFL's (the spiral shaped ones) about two years ago, and have not had any problems. Thanks, E-M.

 

[iwire]

Code wise in my opinion 110.3(B) prevents the use of CFLs in fixtures that do not list CFLs as an acceptable lamp.

What happens in the real world may be different.

It would make much more sense to simply install florescent cans to start with and have the customer stop staring at the lamp.

 

[Energy-Miser]

Thanks, e/m.

 

[andinator]

and have the customer stop staring at the lamp.

Coming down with the plague and that still got me tickled. Good one, Bob.


Andy

 

[Dennis Alwon]

They are making cfl that are specifically designed for recessed cans but as Bob has said the manufacturers instructions should supercede the lamp manufacturers. If a fixture says it is an incandescent fixture then I believe that the use of CFL's would void the UL listing.

I bet in time the can manufacturers will list their products for CFL's.

Permlight has already manufacturered an LED trim that is UL listed for 20 manufactures of cans. So I guess the bulb manufacturer can do the same.

Permlight Products announced today that it has introduced a new LED recessed can for commercial and hotel applications. The Enbryten Down Cool White (5600-6500K) recessed can trim consumes only 15 Watts and uses 60 lumen per watt (LPW) LEDs. The new fixture is UL Classified for use with twenty (20) different existing recent cans from Halo, Juno, Progress, Nora and many others.

The ENBC Series WHT70 model is available in 120VAC, 240VAC and 277VAC input. The 120VAC input version works with any off-the-shelf phase control dimmer. The Nichia based LED system and integral patented electronic ballast configuration is warranted for 3 years with expected lifetimes of 30,000-50,000 hours based on ambient conditions. Permlight's patented technology ensures components are run at proper temperatures to comply with UL1598 and to meet rated lifetimes.

 

[Energy-Miser]

Thanks good inforamtion and nice picture too. e/m.

 

[iwire]

I bet in time the can manufacturers will list their products for CFL's.

I don't see why they would start listing their incandescent can trims for CFL when they already sell rough in kits with ballasts installed and trims for them to use PL type florescent lamps.

They are really the only type of can light we install anymore.

Type PL Lamps​

 

[Dennis Alwon]

I don't see why they would start listing their incandescent can trims for CFL when they already sell rough in kits with ballasts installed and trims for them to use PL type florescent lamps.

Because they cost a whole lot more. The have to address the residential market with a more cost effective setup. That's my opinion , of course. Maybe they will not but as you stated people are still going to use them. I refuse to install them. If HO want the CFL's they can do it after I leave.

 

[iwire]

Because they cost a whole lot more.

Exactly why they will not be motivated to pay for UL to add the listing to the incandescent fixtures.

The have to address the residential market with a more cost effective setup.

I am not so sure of that, energy codes are going to require them....or more accurately prohibit using incandescent fixtures.

I believe in CA they already have to use the florescent fixtures to meet their local energy code.

Maybe they will not but as you stated people are still going to use them.

I agree that will be the case for existing work, I don't think that will continue to be true for new 'inspected' work.

I have many CFLs in my own homes incandescent fixtures but I would not install them on the job.

 

[cschmid]

I am with Dennis on this one about the cost and I think the manufacturers can come down on the costs..I am also with bob that times are changing and California will not be the only one requiring fluorescent lights to be installed..the home owner will change them to fluorescent anyway so labeling will not matter to them..By the time you spend the $8 a bulb extra whats the difference..I just did a house with a whole bunch of cans and they are all incandescent due to cost..

 

[brantmacga]

why has this UL listing not been addressed in congress when debating the incandescent ban, or has it and i just didn't know that??

flourescent recessed fixtures are nice, but not in residential, imo.

 

[normbac]

This co. claims they can be used, look at applications
http://www.nvisioncfl.com/?utm_source=ask&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=nvision&utm_term=fluorescent

 

[Dennis Alwon]

This co. claims they can be used, look at applications
http://www.nvisioncfl.com/?utm_source=ask&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=nvision&utm_term=fluorescent

Sure they can claim whatever they want but have they been listed for that use by a third party.

 

[Rampage_Rick]

The new socket designs are sure to add confusion to the mix. I'm seeing more fixtures equipped with a GU24 twist lock socket, which I guess is to prevent people cheating and going back to incandescent. I think it's a step backwards from having a remote ballast attached to the fixture and changing just the 4-pin tube. The funny part is these bulbs aren't yet available to the general public around here.

Same goes for the MR16s with an edison base. (50W/120V) My supplier's house brand potlights come with these bulbs, but they can't get replacements. I was looking at buying entire fixtures just to get the bulbs. Finally was able to track some down at a lighting store out of town.

 

[Energy-Miser]

This co. claims they can be used, look at applications
http://www.nvisioncfl.com/?utm_source=ask&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=nvision&utm_term=fluorescent

Thanks, I just did check them out. Looks like their B20, B30 and B40 lamps are recommended for recessed application. Thanks again, e/m.

 

[brantmacga]

The funny part is these bulbs aren't available to the general public yet.

they're readily accessible here. we have a light store that specializes in this stuff.

 

[ItsHot]

cfl par style

cfl par style

Hey energy! I just completed a large lab that we installed the enclosed type cfl (par style)lamp in cans. The customer was not really happy. Was just enough light to make them mad! I don't know if I want the government to tell me what kind of lamp I have to use! There is already enough that they are messing up now!!

 

[cschmid]

I understand that people like to save cash on lights so they normally are under lumined..Yet I am against the governmant involvement..I believe the government makes issues bigger not better..

 

[Energy-Miser]

I understand that people like to save cash on lights so they normally are under lumined..Yet I am against the governmant involvement..I believe the government makes issues bigger not better..

The problem sometimes though is that most people would forego much bigger long term savings in favor of the smaller upfront saving. Clear examplen IMHO is incandescent vs fluorescent. If you add up life of the lamp, cost of relamping, and the utility bill for the life of the fixture, the choice should be clear, but I guess it is a bird in hand ... for most people. e/m.

 

[Energy-Miser]

Hey energy! I just completed a large lab that we installed the enclosed type cfl (par style)lamp in cans. The customer was not really happy. Was just enough light to make them mad! I don't know if I want the government to tell me what kind of lamp I have to use! There is already enough that they are messing up now!!

Does it seem like the lumen listed on those lamps are for real, or are they exaggerated? e/m.