CFLs in recessed cans

[Energy-Miser]

they're readily accessible here. we have a light store that specializes in this stuff.

I have also seen some online that seem to be ready for shipping. e/m.

 

[Energy-Miser]

why has this UL listing not been addressed in congress when debating the incandescent ban, or has it and i just didn't know that??

flourescent recessed fixtures are nice, but not in residential, imo.

CFL's work well in open fixtures, I have them all over the place (at my house). I have even put one outside on the back side of the house, waiting to see how cold it has to get before it doesn't fire up! The recess now is a different story. I believe I saw some of those PL styles in a hospital inside recessed cans. They sure looked ugly, but with all the square footage they have to cover, I am sure it saves them a bundle. e/m.

 

[Energy-Miser]

why has this UL listing not been addressed in congress when debating the incandescent ban, or has it and i just didn't know that??

flourescent recessed fixtures are nice, but not in residential, imo.

My only concern here is what will happen to the century old symbol for a bright idea. Somehow a sprially tube will not cut it!! e/m.

 

[Energy-Miser]

Sure they can claim whatever they want but have they been listed for that use by a third party.

Who knows. I do see their lamps (the NVision) all over the discount stores though. Need to look on the label more closely next time I am shopping around. e/m

 

[coulter]

... I have even put one outside on the back side of the house, waiting to see how cold it has to get before it doesn't fire up! ...

I have a stastical sample of two (unknown brand from Big Blue) - not exactly a peer reviewed test. At 32F would light and get bright within a few minutes. At 0F, never got above a medium glow. At -20F, only got a dim glow. Replaced them with 60W thick glass halogens.

carl

 

[Energy-Miser]

I have a stastical sample of two (unknown brand from Big Blue) - not exactly a peer reviewed test. At 32F would light and get bright within a few minutes. At 0F, never got above a medium glow. At -20F, only got a dim glow. Replaced them with 60W thick glass halogens.

carl

Well a sample of two will do at this time, as I have only a sample of one! Thanks for this info. We are reaching 32F here in Maryland, probably in the next week or so. Will let you know how it held out. e/m.

 

[mxslick]

CFL's suck!!

CFL's suck!!

I had tried some of the R30 CFL's (rated 65w, 630 lumes, with 6,000hrs. claimed life) in my kitchen recessed cans..two of the three have already failed after less than a year of moderate usage...they also took time to come up to full bright, especially when it was even a bit cold...

I took them out, put in a dimmer and conventional R30 floods.

And I'm still waiting for the company to honor their alleged five-year warranty. (You call a toll-free number, leave a message and they'll "get back to you" with replacement instructions. Yeah, right.)

Bob (Iwire) said:

I believe in CA they already have to use the florescent fixtures to meet their local energy code.

That is correct. It is mandatory for kitchens and baths, whether new construction or upgrades (those done with permits, that is. :grin: )

Ironically, despite the title of my reply, I do have to note that I have some standard spiral CFL's in both the bathroom and office lights now, and all five of them are at least three years old and still going strong.

 

[Energy-Miser]

I had tried some of the R30 CFL's (rated 65w, 630 lumes, with 6,000hrs....
Bob (Iwire) said:


Ironically, despite the title of my reply, I do have to note that I have some standard spiral CFL's in both the bathroom and office lights now, and all five of them are at least three years old and still going strong.

Well if the globe around them causes premature failure, then it's not worth buying them in that style. The sprial ones are not that ugly to suffer. I have only used those in my house an have not had a signle failure yet (in two years). The amound of light we get seem to be adequate. The fact that I had to take the dimmers out annoyed the kids, but only momentarily, they have forgotten by now that we even had dimmable lights there before. e/m.

 

[peter d]

I believe in CA they already have to use the florescent fixtures to meet their local energy code.

On my last trip there it was quite interesting to see a designer kitchen in a model home with 8 or 10 CFL recessed lights over head. But actually the lighting quality was not that bad. Not as good as incandescent (nothing is better than pure white light anyway) but not bad either.

 

[480sparky]

On my last trip there it was quite interesting to see a designer kitchen in a model home with 8 or 10 CFL recessed lights over head. But actually the lighting quality was not that bad. Not as good as incandescent (nothing is better than pure white light anyway) but not bad either.

Standard incandescent bulbs do not produce white light. It is yellow.

If you know of someone who is into either film photography or astronomy, ask to borrow a #80A filter, then look at a light bulb through it.

Edit to add:
Light Sources.........................Color Temperature in ?K
Clear Blue Sky...........................10,000 to 15,000
Overcast Sky..............................6,000 to 8,000
Noon Sun and Clear Sky.......................6,500
Sunlight Average.........................5,400 to 6,000
Electronic Flash...........................5,400 to 6,000
Household Lighting.......................2,500 to 3,000
200-watt Bulb...................................2,980
100-watt Bulb...................................2,900
75-watt Bulb.....................................2,820
60-watt Bulb.....................................2,800
40-watt Bulb.....................................2,650
Candle Flame...............................1,200 to 1,500

 

[peter d]

Standard incandescent bulbs do not produce white light. It is yellow.

Fair enough. But incandescents do have a CRI of 100, and that's what I was getting at - the color rendering of incandescents is superb, the best actually.

 

[normbac]

I believe in CA they already have to use the florescent fixtures to meet their local energy code.

Unfortunately!

? Kitchens. At least half the installed wattage of luminaires in
kitchens shall be high efficacy and the ones that are not must
be switched separately.
? Lighting in Bathrooms, Garages, Laundry Rooms and Utility
Rooms. All luminaires shall either be high efficacy or shall be
controlled by an occupant sensor.
? Other Rooms. All luminaires shall either be high efficacy or shall
be controlled by an occupant sensor or dimmer. Closet that
are less than 70 square foot are exempt from this requirements.
? Outdoor Lighting. All luminaires mounted to the building or to
other buildings on the same lot shall be high efficacy luminaires
or shall be controlled by a photocontrol/motion sensor
combination.
? Common Areas of Multifamily Buildings. All luminaires in the
common areas of multifamily buildings shall either be high
efficacy or shall be controlled by an occupant sensor.
Luminaires that are recessed into insulated ceilings are required to be rated for
insulation contact (?IC-rated?) so that insulation can be placed over them. The
housing of the luminaire shall be airtight to prevent conditioned air escaping into
the ceiling cavity or attic, unconditioned air infiltrating from the ceiling or attic into
the conditioned space.
An additional set of requirements apply to parking lots or garages with space for
eight or more cars, which are typically for multifamily buildings. The
nonresidential Standards for parking lots and/or garages apply in these cases

 

[e57]

It would make much more sense to simply install florescent cans to start with and have the customer stop staring at the lamp.

I wish it were that easy! Ca's t-24 has some loop-poles, but the only serve to confuse and bewilder the customers. Half the time they think you're pulling their leg, or trying to rack up the bill.

FYI - In the land of the can - other than 4-pin electronic ballasts - it don't count. Screw in CFL's won't pass an inspection...

T-24 also has some other contray effects - for instance. A customer, designer, or achetect wants to justify a bunch of incandesant cans in a kitchen - they add more floureseant lights.... "We'll just put a double row of T-5 HO's you'll never use in the soffit!"

 

[cowboyjwc]

As I am smarter than the average bulb manufactuer, I disregarded the label that said not to install this CFL in a recessed can. It lasted all of about 2 days.

Could have used that $5 for reading glasses.

 

[DBack Elec]

Fair enough. But incandescents do have a CRI of 100, and that's what I was getting at - the color rendering of incandescents is superb, the best actually.

My understanding is CFI's do not dim as well as incandescents. So if you are looking for decorative lighting incandescents might be the way to go.

 

[Energy-Miser]

On my last trip there it was quite interesting to see a designer kitchen in a model home with 8 or 10 CFL recessed lights over head. But actually the lighting quality was not that bad. Not as good as incandescent (nothing is better than pure white light anyway) but not bad either.

Well like anything else, there are always tradeoffs. Usually we get to decide on the trade offs, in California's case their representatives have done it for them, that's democracy. e/m.

 

[Energy-Miser]

I believe in CA they already have to use the florescent fixtures to meet their local energy code.

Unfortunately!

? Kitchens. At least half the installed wattage of luminaires in
kitchens shall be high efficacy and the ones that are not must
be switched separately.
? Lighting in Bathrooms, Garages, Laundry Rooms and Utility
Rooms. All luminaires shall either be high efficacy or shall be
controlled by an occupant sensor.
? Other Rooms. All luminaires shall either be high efficacy or shall
be controlled by an occupant sensor or dimmer. Closet that
are less than 70 square foot are exempt from this requirements.
? Outdoor Lighting. All luminaires mounted to the building or to
other buildings on the same lot shall be high efficacy luminaires
or shall be controlled by a photocontrol/motion sensor
combination.
? Common Areas of Multifamily Buildings. All luminaires in the
common areas of multifamily buildings shall either be high
efficacy or shall be controlled by an occupant sensor.
Luminaires that are recessed into insulated ceilings are required to be rated for
insulation contact (?IC-rated?) so that insulation can be placed over them. The
housing of the luminaire shall be airtight to prevent conditioned air escaping into
the ceiling cavity or attic, unconditioned air infiltrating from the ceiling or attic into
the conditioned space.
An additional set of requirements apply to parking lots or garages with space for
eight or more cars, which are typically for multifamily buildings. The
nonresidential Standards for parking lots and/or garages apply in these cases

Thanks for posting this, I had never seen it and wondered what the language was like. Now I know. e/m.

 

[Energy-Miser]

Standard incandescent bulbs do not produce white light. It is yellow.

If you know of someone who is into either film photography or astronomy, ask to borrow a #80A filter, then look at a light bulb through it. ....

Well we are all striving to emulate the daylight, which speaks well of harvesting of natural light when possible. But of course that is not a purely electrical problem to address. e/m.

 

[cschmid]

you are correct not an electrical problem but one a business owner needs to be aware of and also how the color affects other colors..like a 65k lamp produces blue spectrum and when blue paint is added to room makes for some real contrast the blues become more prominent and can become over bearing in presence..so you need to explain them things to the home owner when selling the lights..So not and electrical problem but it can be an EC's problem.