Chandelier over Jaccuzzi

[Dennis Alwon]

I posted that picture and from that angle I would not bet that the chandelier was in the tub space.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I posted that picture and from that angle I would not bet that the chandelier was in the tub space.

Ok Dennis so I am wrong here in your opinion. So please tell me why the Author and designer of the bathroom and of the web page states
"The paneled bath tub tub was centered under the window to accentuate the gorgeous view of the Pacific Ocean. The room was lit by the charming chandelier over the tub and wall sconces. We covered this vanity chair in a cream ultra suede"

The link was provided in the OP's original post.

Are you still not satisfied or do I need to recreate this room with a 3D program!

 

[Little Bill]

I hope you are just Kidding with me. Use the two pictures together. Use clues from each.

Wasn't kidding, I just thought you posted the wrong picture. Didn't do my best "Inspector Clueso" work on this!:slaphead:

 

[wlittle]

Agreed - in the first link it does appear, after close inspection, that it is not over the whirlpool. have to get a tape measure out to see if its outside the 3' adjacent zone though.

I have shown my customer the actual code section, as well given her a list of reasons, not the least of which is the possibility of a drop of water hitting an open, hot light bulb and bursting, sending glass into the tub - a mess at least, and a puncture or cut injury at the worse end. That ended that - mostly. still doing a chandelier, just doing it outside the luminaire zone.

 

[wlittle]

Fuel to the fire - so to speak

Fuel to the fire - so to speak

well, after re-reading the blogspot link - which does in fact state that the chandelier is over the tub (or at best, still within the zone, but not directly over the tub) - one click at the bottom of the blog lead me to this fascinating page of ritzy bathrooms, most of which have a dangly down luminaire above or far too near the zone. only one looks like it may actually be candles. Enjoy!
http://belgianpearls.blogspot.com/2010/10/choose-your-bathroom.html

 

[Sierrasparky]

well, after re-reading the blogspot link - which does in fact state that the chandelier is over the tub (or at best, still within the zone, but not directly over the tub) - one click at the bottom of the blog lead me to this fascinating page of ritzy bathrooms, most of which have a dangly down luminaire above or far too near the zone. only one looks like it may actually be candles. Enjoy!
http://belgianpearls.blogspot.com/2010/10/choose-your-bathroom.html

That link is to some designer in Belgam so they may not be using the international electric code.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Code not withstanding, I get a kick out of how worked up everyone is getting over this. You think nothing of installing a vanity light within a couple feet of a bathroom sink, but installing a chandelier 6 feet over a tub and suddenly people will be dying in droves. :lol:

The likelihood of someone touching the sink faucet while changing/touching the vanity fixture is relatively high compared to the likelihood of someone deciding to change the bulb in the chandelier while taking a bath. The likelihood of a child sitting with their feet in a full sink of water and reaching up and touching the vanity fixture is far more likely than an adult standing in the tub and stretching to touch the chandelier over their head.

Code not withstanding, why does one situation cause everyone so much angst while the other is a daily non-issue? For that matter, why does a 120 volt outlet in a damp location (garage or laundry) have to be GFI protected, but not a 240 volt outlet. Install a 240 volt garage door opener, and poof, it doesn't require GFCI protection.

Doesn't anyone ever question code?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Code not withstanding, I get a kick out of how worked up everyone is getting over this. You think nothing of installing a vanity light within a couple feet of a bathroom sink, but installing a chandelier 6 feet over a tub and suddenly people will be dying in droves. :lol:

The likelihood of someone touching the sink faucet while changing/touching the vanity fixture is relatively high compared to the likelihood of someone deciding to change the bulb in the chandelier while taking a bath. The likelihood of a child sitting with their feet in a full sink of water and reaching up and touching the vanity fixture is far more likely than an adult standing in the tub and stretching to touch the chandelier over their head.

Code not withstanding, why does one situation cause everyone so much angst while the other is a daily non-issue? For that matter, why does a 120 volt outlet in a damp location (garage or laundry) have to be GFI protected, but not a 240 volt outlet. Install a 240 volt garage door opener, and poof, it doesn't require GFCI protection.

Doesn't anyone ever question code?

No panty bunching here. I think there should be an exception added for GFCI protected lighting myself...

 

[iwire]

Code not withstanding, I get a kick out of how worked up everyone is getting over this.

Rick, that is pretty condescending.

This is an NEC code forum, we are talking about what the code requires, not what each one of us personally thinks about it.

The likelihood of someone touching the sink faucet while changing/touching the vanity fixture is relatively high compared to the likelihood of someone deciding to change the bulb in the chandelier while taking a bath. The likelihood of a child sitting with their feet in a full sink of water and reaching up and touching the vanity fixture is far more likely than an adult standing in the tub and stretching to touch the chandelier over their head.

That is all irrelevant and the kind of thing that we electricians have to put with from designers and engineers that feel the code is beneath them.

The code says what it says, if you disagree with it try to change it, don't try to have the electrician ignore it.

Code not withstanding, why does one situation cause everyone so much angst while the other is a daily non-issue? For that matter, why does a 120 volt outlet in a damp location (garage or laundry) have to be GFI protected, but not a 240 volt outlet. Install a 240 volt garage door opener, and poof, it doesn't require GFCI protection.

Statistics and no one has put in a decent proposal to require GFCIs for those 240 outlets.

Doesn't anyone ever question code?

Of course, but we still have to follow it until it changes.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

Rick, that is pretty condescending.

This is an NEC code forum, we are talking about what the code requires, not what each one of us personally thinks about it.

If my posting sounded condescending, that's because you chose to read it that way. It was intended to pose critical thinking about code.

Yes this is a code forum, but this discussion is about what everyone thinks of it, which is why there is such close analysis of some internet photos.

Code isn't perfect and can't take into account every situation. Without applying critical thinking to why code says what it says, it is just as likely to create a hazardous situation as it is to over regulate a non-hazardous situation.

 

[Sierrasparky]

If my posting sounded condescending, that's because you chose to read it that way. It was intended to pose critical thinking about code.

Yes this is a code forum, but this discussion is about what everyone thinks of it, which is why there is such close analysis of some internet photos.

Code isn't perfect and can't take into account every situation. Without applying critical thinking to why code says what it says, it is just as likely to create a hazardous situation as it is to over regulate a non-hazardous situation.

This thread was started because of a customer wanting an intallation that would not be code compliant. This thread has proliferated because we are dealing with a issue that is a common problem that gets us electricians into trouble.
[/QUOTE] Iwire That is all irrelevant and the kind of thing that we electricians have to put with from designers and engineers that feel the code is beneath them [/QUOTE]

The bigger issue is that the architects and engineers requst stuff all the time that is not compliant and place the burden of compliance with us EC's.

The code is what it is and we unfortunately need to deal with it , or get it changed.

 

[broadgage]

Would the light be permitted in the normally prohibited zone, it it was fitted with 12 or 24 volt lamps, from a suitable transformer ?

I have just installed one here in the UK.

6 light chandelier fitted with 12 volt 21 watt vehicle lamps, 12 volt 150 watt transformer located in loft space above bathroom ceiling.
The lamps are cheaper, brighter, and longer lasting than line voltage ones.

 

[WIMaster]

Would the light be permitted in the normally prohibited zone, it it was fitted with 12 or 24 volt lamps, from a suitable transformer ?

I have just installed one here in the UK.

6 light chandelier fitted with 12 volt 21 watt vehicle lamps, 12 volt 150 watt transformer located in loft space above bathroom ceiling.
The lamps are cheaper, brighter, and longer lasting than line voltage ones.

Not on this side of the pond.
410.10(d) makes no mention of voltage whatsoever.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Great news about the original post. I was able to get the website owner to pull the pictures and references to the light over the tub.


http://brookegiannetti.typepad.com/.../11/a-before-and-after-feminine-bathroom.html