Changing to Fiber Optic for Internet and TV

[charlie b]

I recently signed up for FO. I'm waiting for the technician to contact me to schedule the install. I am told they will dig a trench from their box in the common yard to our townhouse. I am concerned about where they will install their FO router (if that is the right term). We have an unfinished basement and a second floor (mostly used by guests, so the WIFI and TV signals need to reach that far). The level of the outside grade comes about halfway up the basement wall.

I don't want it in the basement, for three reasons, all of which may be irrational or simply unimportant. That is why I am posting this thread. I am hoping for enlightenment from my fellow forum members.

First, stairs are not my best friends lately. I would not want to have to go downstairs to reset something and thereby miss part of a football game. But perhaps this component never needs to be reset?

Secondly, there are very few receptacles in the basement near the wall that faces the common yard. The ones that are there are taken up by the water softener and the reverse osmosis system. Although our service panel is on that wall, I would rather not have to hire an electrician to install a new dedicated receptacle. I don't know how much power their equipment requires, so I can't tell whether it can share a receptacle with any existing load.

My third and most concerning reason is that I don't know to what extend the FO system's signal might be degraded by having to pass through the concrete ceiling of the basement and then up to the second floor.

Before I find myself in a debate with the technician, can anyone allay my concerns? TIA

 

[Little Bill]

I had fiber installed a couple years ago and they put the router where I requested it. I can't speak to what your installer will do.

 

[SceneryDriver]

Every ISP does it a little different, and it can depend of the technician you get as well.

I have Verizon FIOS fiber. The overhead-rated (or underground, in your case) fiber comes in off the pole, down the outside of my house through 1" PVC, and enters my basement through the rim joist. It actually has a female fiber port on it, and connects to the ONT with a short fiber jumper lead.

ONT stands for "optical network terminal." It provides a copper Ethernet port, (and if I paid for it a landline connection, and a CATV coax connection). It serves as the demarc point for the ISP, and anything downstream of it is the customer's responsibility. I have CAT6 Ethernet run to my network rack, where it ties into my router.

In my case, I have a separate router, switch, and (2) wireless access points. If your ISP does it like mine, they would run CAT6 Ethernet cable from the ONT to wherever you ask them to place the router/access point combo unit.

I wouldn't worry about needing to access the ONT. I've never had to reset it or even touch it in the 3+ years we've had FIOS. I have it connected to my network UPS so we still have Internet access during a power outage, but that's optional. It also sips power (about 4W when I checked), so there's no worries about needing a dedicated receptacle in the basement. Your router may need to be power cycled - especially if it's a crap router/access point combo from the ISP - but you should be able to ask for it to be installed on the first floor, provided there's a reasonable cable path.

If you're interested in a router / access point that doesn't suck, look at Ubiquiti. Their Unifi Express is a definite step above the junk that ISPs typically provide.

UniFi Express - Ubiquiti Store

Impressively compact UniFi Cloud Gateway and WiFi 6 access point that runs UniFi Network. Powers an entire network or simply meshes as an access point.

store.ui.com

They take some expertise to set up, but Ubiquiti's gear is rock solid. I have an all Ubiquiti network at home, and I have uptime measured in year+ increments. My only downtime is for firmware updates.


SceneryDriver

 

[ruxton.stanislaw]

A couple things; if your installer is not lazy or maybe you tip him $50 or $100, he will do it exactly how you want. When I had mine, he was super lazy; he dropped off a 1000' spool of Corning fiber for me to run and I got to keep it all after. He came back in two weeks to make up the splices.

Anyhow, usually there is a demarcation outside on the side of your wall, from that point, you can run to wherever you would like using an extension. You can buy pre-made cables from Amazon in various lengths. E.g. this one comes in lengths of up to 98'. I am not sure about the plenum or other requirements, but I am sure you could find pre-terminated cable with the necessary rating. https://www.amazon.com/PacSatSales-Single-SIMPLEX-Fiber-Optic/dp/B01GIV0PIQ

 

[hbiss]

A couple things; if your installer is not lazy or maybe you tip him $50 or $100, he will do it exactly how you want. When I had mine, he was super lazy; he dropped off a 1000' spool of Corning fiber for me to run and I got to keep it all after. He came back in two weeks to make up the splices.

Anyhow, usually there is a demarcation outside on the side of your wall, from that point, you can run to wherever you would like using an extension. You can buy pre-made cables from Amazon in various lengths. E.g. this one comes in lengths of up to 98'. I am not sure about the plenum or other requirements, but I am sure you could find pre-terminated cable with the necessary rating. https://www.amazon.com/PacSatSales-Single-SIMPLEX-Fiber-Optic/dp/B01GIV0PIQ

I have ever heard of a cable company doing that. Normally, their installer runs the fiber to the combination ONT/router/WiFi unit located somewhere they think you will get the best WiFi coverage. The customer never handles the fiber and it's all about WiFi, which they think you will use for everything.

I have Verizon FIOS fiber. The overhead-rated (or underground, in your case) fiber comes in off the pole, down the outside of my house through 1" PVC, and enters my basement through the rim joist. It actually has a female fiber port on it, and connects to the ONT with a short fiber jumper lead.

ONT stands for "optical network terminal." It provides a copper Ethernet port, (and if I paid for it a landline connection, and a CATV coax connection). It serves as the demarc point for the ISP, and anything downstream of it is the customer's responsibility. I have CAT6 Ethernet run to my network rack, where it ties into my router.

In my case, I have a separate router, switch, and (2) wireless access points. If your ISP does it like mine, they would run CAT6 Ethernet cable from the ONT to wherever you ask them to place the router/access point combo unit.

I wouldn't worry about needing to access the ONT. I've never had to reset it or even touch it in the 3+ years we've had FIOS.

You have had FiOS for better than 3 years and things are a little different now. I looked into switching to Verizon awhile back and found that the equipment they provide is nothing like what they installed a few years ago. Back then, you could do what you have done (which is exactly what I have done), provide your own router, switch and access points. Doing so allows you to choose your own equipment according to your needs and preferences.

My research indicated that what they now provide is an all-in-one watered down self-installable consumer ONT/router/WiFi access point in a plastic cube. I guess it's fine for the average homeowner's house or apartment but not for a business or someone who knows what they are doing. You have no control over the WiFi as far as turning it off if using your own access points, not even sure if you can access the settings without a call to customer service. The big problem however is changing their router from DHCP to bridge mode so you can use it with your own router. That takes a call to customer service and, if they know what you are talking about and do it, there is no guarantee that it will stay in that mode. Reportably, power outages will make it reset or it just does it on it's own.

It looks like they provide the same equipment for business customers which I don't understand. Maybe I was unable to find where they provided different equipment to business customers with their own networks but I'll bet it costs more if they do.

Apparently, all the ISPs are moving in this direction in anticipation of the switch to streaming services. I heard of one cable company that provides one "Fire stick" when you switch to fiber. After that you can use a smart TV or buy your own "Fire sticks", Rokus, etc.

-Hal

 

[ruxton.stanislaw]

I have ever heard of a cable company doing that. Normally, their installer runs the fiber to the combination ONT/router/WiFi unit located somewhere they think you will get the best WiFi coverage. The customer never handles the fiber and it's all about WiFi, which they think you will use for everything.

Neither did I, until the contractor made that proposition in order to put the optical network terminal where I wanted.

With my ISP, you are able to register your own GPON or XPON equipment with them. It just takes a call to their technical department. Often, I hear of people using SFP+ XPON fiber modules to attain the advertised 3 Gbps speeds (rather than splitting it across multiple gigabit ports and/or WiFi). E.g. these (coincidentally, also a product from Ubiquiti) or even faster ones that are available now: https://www.amazon.ca/Ubiquiti-Instant-Performance-Transceiver-UF-Instant/dp/B087R91RJ2

 

[PaulMmn]

One thing you may have overlooked-- if the power goes out, so does your cable, phone, etc.. Unless you pay extra for the battery backup unit.
This is mainly for users who have a 'standard' phone through fiber. It requires the standard 48(?) volt ring signal.

 

[hbiss]

Getting back to the OP, I have a question. Charlie, what do you have now for TV and internet??

-Hal

 

[ruxton.stanislaw]

One thing you may have overlooked-- if the power goes out, so does your cable, phone, etc.. Unless you pay extra for the battery backup unit.
This is mainly for users who have a 'standard' phone through fiber. It requires the standard 48(?) volt ring signal.

Where I am, the "Optical Network Terminal" has an in-line model specific battery (between the AC adapter connector and the ONT) backup module that contains a user serviceable/replaceable 12v lead acid battery. Depending on your provider, you may need to specifically request it or pay extra for it if you do not subscribe to their phone service.

If that is not available, there are cheap, but functional DC "UPS" battery packs available on Amazon that can output a variety of voltages for your modem. E.g. https://www.amazon.com/TalentCell-Uninterrupted-27000mAh-Wireless-Smartphone/dp/B07WLD32RP.

 

[jim dungar]

My ATT fiber ONT was put in the basement and plugs into the receptacle near the service panel. The technician did not enable the Wi-Fi capabilities so I was able to plug in my CAT 5 cable and reuse my EERO mesh system. The technician was in my house for about 10 minutes.

 

[ggunn]

I recently signed up for FO. I'm waiting for the technician to contact me to schedule the install. I am told they will dig a trench from their box in the common yard to our townhouse. I am concerned about where they will install their FO router (if that is the right term). We have an unfinished basement and a second floor (mostly used by guests, so the WIFI and TV signals need to reach that far). The level of the outside grade comes about halfway up the basement wall.

I don't want it in the basement, for three reasons, all of which may be irrational or simply unimportant. That is why I am posting this thread. I am hoping for enlightenment from my fellow forum members.

First, stairs are not my best friends lately. I would not want to have to go downstairs to reset something and thereby miss part of a football game. But perhaps this component never needs to be reset?

Secondly, there are very few receptacles in the basement near the wall that faces the common yard. The ones that are there are taken up by the water softener and the reverse osmosis system. Although our service panel is on that wall, I would rather not have to hire an electrician to install a new dedicated receptacle. I don't know how much power their equipment requires, so I can't tell whether it can share a receptacle with any existing load.

My third and most concerning reason is that I don't know to what extend the FO system's signal might be degraded by having to pass through the concrete ceiling of the basement and then up to the second floor.

Before I find myself in a debate with the technician, can anyone allay my concerns? TIA

Tell the tech to put it where you want it or leave. He'll put it where you want it.

 

[GeorgeB]

Greenville SC, 2 70s grandparents;

I had ATT DSL before fiber. My copper pair was so bad, often my nominal 1.5 Mbit was more like 1.5 kbit. They were unable to find a better pair and offered 150 Mbit FTTP as an alternate.

They used a shovel to open a groove, ran the "wire", and repacked the groove (maybe 3" deep!) from their Quazite box to my rear wall (some 50 ft), drilled the brick wall and put a 2"x3" box inside on the wall. That box is powered by a "wall-wart", likely WELL under 10 Watts. From it they went via the path on which we agreed (easier than what he'd rather do) with cat5E to the DSL box which apparently is far more capable than I expected.

They commissioned and tested at 1Gbit, said it would be limited to 500 Mbit in few days, their lowest speed, not 150 as I was told by the salesman. That box is wireless and phone capable; wireless is enabled but not used. Phone is not used. I take the Ethernet out to my ORBI router (Host on a small single satellite mesh system). All works well. Other than the rare streamed 4k movie, our needs would be served fine by 1 Mbit.

I can get equipment details if anyone cares. (I also had my bill reduced and now have 300 Mbit.)

George

 

[retirede]

I had fiber installed a couple years ago and they put the router where I requested it. I can't speak to what your installer will do.

Same here.

 

[LarryFine]

Charlie, is there a point where the inside coax wiring home runs meet?

 

[Gene B]

In general terms you have two options. You can have the installer run fiber to your equipment closet (or wherever your ethernet cables converge). Or you can run fiber to the best place for WiFi coverage. In the first case you might need to add a WiFi access point to supplement your ISP's equipment. In the second case you might need to run more ethernet cables.

 

[Birken Vogt]

My company does the following. Run fiber from the outside plant to a location on the outside of the house and install something like a demarc box. I think this is so if the cable gets torn up they can easily re-plug it.

Then they run more fiber on the OUTSIDE of your house (they insist) to wherever the modem goes. They don't want to be involved in attics or interior finish I am sure.

Here is what I did at my shop. Ran a piece of smurf tube ahead of time from their demarc through the rafters down to where we wanted the modem in the CENTER of the building.

Then when their tech showed up, all he had to do was put the cable through the smurf tube and we did not have cable all over the exterior.

 

[charlie b]

Getting back to the OP, I have a question. Charlie, what do you have now for TV and internet??

-Hal

Xfinity for both. Their router is plugged into a coax jack on the wall. I have never traced it out, but I suspect it enters the basement, hits a splitter (or other distribution device), and is routed within walls to several rooms.

 

[charlie b]

Charlie, is there a point where the inside coax wiring home runs meet?

I don't know, nor do I know what such an animal might look like. This is well outside my area of expertise. I am not a Real Cool Data Dude (there's "engineer's humor" for you). So I will admit that much of the earlier posts went over my head (though I am grateful anyway for the effort).

 

[retirede]

Xfinity for both. Their router is plugged into a coax jack on the wall. I have never traced it out, but I suspect it enters the basement, hits a splitter (or other distribution device), and is routed within walls to several rooms.

They should be willing to run the fiber to the same spot as their coax.

 

[SceneryDriver]

I have ever heard of a cable company doing that. Normally, their installer runs the fiber to the combination ONT/router/WiFi unit located somewhere they think you will get the best WiFi coverage. The customer never handles the fiber and it's all about WiFi, which they think you will use for everything.



You have had FiOS for better than 3 years and things are a little different now. I looked into switching to Verizon awhile back and found that the equipment they provide is nothing like what they installed a few years ago. Back then, you could do what you have done (which is exactly what I have done), provide your own router, switch and access points. Doing so allows you to choose your own equipment according to your needs and preferences.

My research indicated that what they now provide is an all-in-one watered down self-installable consumer ONT/router/WiFi access point in a plastic cube. I guess it's fine for the average homeowner's house or apartment but not for a business or someone who knows what they are doing. You have no control over the WiFi as far as turning it off if using your own access points, not even sure if you can access the settings without a call to customer service. The big problem however is changing their router from DHCP to bridge mode so you can use it with your own router. That takes a call to customer service and, if they know what you are talking about and do it, there is no guarantee that it will stay in that mode. Reportably, power outages will make it reset or it just does it on it's own.

It looks like they provide the same equipment for business customers which I don't understand. Maybe I was unable to find where they provided different equipment to business customers with their own networks but I'll bet it costs more if they do.

Apparently, all the ISPs are moving in this direction in anticipation of the switch to streaming services. I heard of one cable company that provides one "Fire stick" when you switch to fiber. After that you can use a smart TV or buy your own "Fire sticks", Rokus, etc.

-Hal

Well, if Verizon is doing that everywhere, that's terrible. The last thing I want is Verizon's garbage ONT/router/access point in my system, especially with no way to turn off their routing. I'll be hanging onto my "dumb" ONT for as long as possible.

For what it's worth, Verizon has replaced my ONT once about two years ago after our original ONT crapped out one day randomly. It was probably just the line lump power supply, but the tech replaced it like-for-like, no questions asked.


SceneryDriver