Charged to move a circuit breaker box?

[JustAGuyNamedRob]

Hello,

I'm not sure if this should be posted here but I am looking for guidance. I recently had to have a fuse box changed to a breaker box in my co-op. The co-op secured a deal with an electric company to do the jobs. It was a set price for installation and a higher price if the box had to be moved to another location. The contract stated that if the box needed to be moved, the fuse box would remain as a splice box and the new panel would be relocated approximately 6 feet away. Instead, they ripped out the fuse box panel and put the breaker panel on the other side of the wall using the existing wiring they took out from the fuse box. They still want to charge me the extra for moving the box though. I obviously intend to pay the price for installation but I don't believe I should pay the extra for moving the box. There was no wiring added, they did not use a splice box and because they removed the fuse box I now have to also pay to repair the hole made from that. Charging the extra to move the box would have meant using the fuse box as a splice box. Would you guys normally charge extra for moving the box in a job like that? I tried to attach pictures for reference. One is where they ripped the fuse box out of the wall and the other is where they put the new breaker box on the other side. Thank you!

https://imgur.com/a/YkOAuyv

 

[tom baker]

I will approve this as the op is not doing any work. Based on a few pictures and with out being on site, it’s difficult to know about costs. Perhaps it was done to avoid installing AFCI breakers, does the new panel have AFCI breakers?
And you went from fuses to a up to date circuit breaker panel, for me that would be the end of the story.

 

[infinity]

They still want to charge me the extra for moving the box though. I obviously intend to pay the price for installation but I don't believe I should pay the extra for moving the box. There was no wiring added, they did not use a splice box and because they removed the fuse box I now have to also pay to repair the hole made from that. Charging the extra to move the box would have meant using the fuse box as a splice box.

So lets say that they left the existing fuse panel as a splice box. They would then need to run all of the existing branch circuits through some type of raceway(s) to the new panel and splice all of the old conductors to the new ones. Once the new conductors were in the new panel they would need to tie them in. By running the old cables to the new panel the tie in aspect of the job is a wash. So what did you save, not adding a new raceway with wires and not having to splice in the old fuse panel. But you now needed to remove all of the old cables from the fuse panel and install them in the new panel. IMO at the end of the day it's all a wash.

 

[Eddie702]

Obviously, they knew going in that it was possible that some panels in some units would have to be relocated. They can't be expected price out every individual unit and there are also unforeseen circumstances.

Moving the panel to the other side of the wall is more work than a simple panel change. Is it as much as using a splice box??

Not enough difference to make a difference.

 

[petersonra]

They probably did you a favor.

 

[LarryFine]

Rob, I see your position. I would agree to the relocation fee if, and only if they do both of the following:

1. They either clean the mess they left behind or deduct the cost to have it done from their fee.

2. They either repair the wall on both sides or deduct the cost to have it done from their fee.

This applies even if you do it yourself. There is no excuse for leaving a work site looking like that.

 

[infinity]

Rob, I see your position. I would agree to the relocation fee if, and only if they do both of the following:

1. They either clean the mess they left behind or deduct the cost to have it done from their fee.

2. They either repair the wall on both sides or deduct the cost to have it done from their fee.

This applies even if you do it yourself. there is no excuse to leaving a work site looking like that.

Larry are you assuming that they were being paid to repair the wall? The OP made no mention of that. We've done many jobs where it as clearly stipulated that patching was by others.

 

[LarryFine]

Larry are you assuming that they were being paid to repair the wall? The OP made no mention of that. We've done many jobs where it as clearly stipulated that patching was by others.

I guess I am. I do the whole job. I just can't imagine leaving all the debris, either.

 

[jaggedben]

Along the lines of what Larry said...

The problem here isn't so much that they did the wrong thing, but that they didn't get your approval, and are charging you for something you arguably didn't contract for. In my state the latter would be illegal. So yeah, I certainly wouldn't pay their extra fee when you have to pay for drywall work.

Also that's a real hack job they did on the wall. But maybe it's hard plaster not sheetrock?

Larry are you assuming that they were being paid to repair the wall? The OP made no mention of that. We've done many jobs where it as clearly stipulated that patching was by others.

OP said "now have to also pay to repair the hole", although unclear to whom. They should have either:
- told him upfront that they would not cover drywall repair, so he could get quotes ahead of time
- avoided making drywall repair necessary
- included it in their original quote

 

[petersonra]

I think they need to clean up after themselves.

I would not expect the electricians to repair walls they were forced to damage while doing electrical repairs.

But, these kind of things ought to be clearly laid out in the purchase order contract.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I see this more as communication issue than cost issue, and in my opinion, that is where 99% of customer/contractor conflict comes from, is poor communication.

I will often "call an audible" on work. There are many ways to (properly) skin a cat, or a deer, and I reserve the right to change up how the actual work is being done. However, I rarely give different prices, but maybe that's just me.

As others have said, I think the pricing is a wash, but there is something that left a bad taste in your mouth, and perhaps its the mess left behind.

I understand that most electricians are not going to patch drywall, but again, it comes down to communication, and whether they informed you that there could possibly be patch work that was not covered.

 

[LarryFine]

I understand that most electricians are not going to patch drywall, but again, it comes down to communication, and whether they informed you that there could possibly be patch work that was not covered.

Possibly?! I find it hard to believe that not one resident asked what would be done about the walls.

I do my own drywall work, which is part of why I was appalled by the description and the pictures.

 

[AC\DC]

You should not pay for relocation fee.
If they did this to save on installing afci. They pocketed that money and saved it on time and labor to relocate. So it’s a wash.

Like Larry said that’s the shitty job.
I don’t do Sheetrock repair but that could have been done without any damage. Beside the old panel location.

Plus did you want the panel were they put it. does it now mess up what you wanted to do in that space.
I say don’t pay they trying to be sneaky like most contractors. What they did went a lot faster so they made a good profit and now trying to get more..

 

[farmantenna]

I don't agree that you should pay the higher fee because it was flipped around. Their workmanship royally sucks. Hack job. Absolutely no effort to minimize damage.

 

[Beaches EE]

If the EC isn't performing drywall repairs at least they should have used an oscillating tool to make square and neat openings and cleaned up the debris.

 

[Buck Parrish]

Flipping it around is easier because you now have access in the wall with the panel in. I would not pay the charge for moving. How much was it?
We always patch the drywall and clean up with a vacuum and damp paper towels.

They only needed to damage one side of the wall. The side the panel was on should not have had extra holes.

 

[Fred B]

1. What I see is that the existing fuse box looks to have been in a non-compliant location thus needing to be moved.
2. Move was simplest to locate compliant was to reverse of the existing location (minimal move). The suggestion of leaving the old fuse box as a junction if move necessitated longer conductors was valid and have done such in past, but with the move by just flipping to opposite wall it would be a cleaner final installation.
3 OP statement implies a contract price with only variable is moving of panel again a flat rate. most times the contract price includes per unit a potential loss or profit thus would give set flat price that would be less than the actual time and material might have been for worst case. That would have a potential for loss on some units. but a quoted fixed price by the contractor he has no obligation to reduce the price because the job went easier than it could have.
Automotive flat rate charges with just such a set up, if the job ends up easier or harder for whatever reason the cost to do the job doesn't change.

As others stated the holes could have been done in a neater manner limiting some of the appearance damage mess. Not sure who was to be ultimately responsible for sheet rock repair and painting, and the contactor that set up the work may have indicated finishes would be handled by someone else.

 

[infinity]

As others stated the holes could have been done in a neater manner limiting some of the appearance damage mess. Not sure who was to be ultimately responsible for sheet rock repair and painting, and the contactor that set up the work may have indicated finishes would be handled by someone else.

That would be my guess. If the sparky isn't doing the patching then they probably aren't too concerned about cutting a neat hole. A carpenter used to tell me "a patch is a patch" so he's getting paid regardless of what's involved to fix the wall.

 

[James L]

I do panel swaps like that periodically, and it's a 5-6 hour job

In my opinion, flipping that panel around made the job easier because it gave a good access hole for working.

Turning the old panel into a splice box to set the panel 6 ft away would have added at least 3 or 4 hours. Maybe an additional 6 hours.

Turning that old panel into a splice box would have used a considerable amount of wire, adding at least $100. Add to that the cost of the box.

Turning that old panel into a splice box to add 6 ft of cable to every circuit would have required are fault breakers on all the 120v circuits, adding hundreds of dollars.

I can see making the gaping hole on the side where the old panel was, and I wouldn't have any complaint about what that hole looked like.

But the other side with the new panel, that should have been done with zero damage.

I would only pay the original price because the setup you got was actually put together easier and faster than putting it in the old location.

And I wouldn't pay anything until I had that side patched where the new panel is. That is completely unacceptable and I would deduct that from the bill.

 

[AC\DC]

But if they had an agreement to move the panel. That is what the owner agreed too, not this. Yes he could call and say I found an easier way is that all right..
But can’t just move it were he did not discuss with the owner.
Lack of communication- crappy install- shady business practices-