Charging and paying for piece work

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tallgirl

tallgirl

Senior Member
Location
Glendale, WI
Occupation
Controls Systems firmware engineer
The group I've been involved with in New Orleans is undergoing some changes, and while I still intend to be involved with them as a volunteer, the changes that are underway may lead to fewer "volunteer" opportunities rather than more for me.

I've spoken to two different EC's in town about working for them for pay to fill in any time when I'm not working for the group. The idea I have in mind at present is doing finish trim piece work since it is plentiful and seems (to me) to lend itself more to piece work than any other kind of electrical work.

For those of y'all who either do piece work, or have had workers who do piece work for you, how does it work out? How are rates set? What's the unit of work? Inquiring minds and all that.
 
I had an OLD electrician worked for me once doing finish for a fixed price. He was not as fast as in his younger years when he claimed he needed to do >300 devices/day to make a living. That was using a Yankee driver & pair of strippers. That's good production in my book.
 
bkludecke said:
>300 devices/day That's good production in my book.
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Yeah, that aint bad. Comes to a device every about minute and a half. Not including getting out of the truck, morning break and knocking off about 10-15 minutes early and longer than 30 minutes for lunch.
 
Hanging my tools up and leaving the trade. If an OLD electrician can consistantly knock out 300 devices a day, I'll not be able to compete.
 
bkludecke said:
I had an OLD electrician worked for me once doing finish for a fixed price. He was not as fast as in his younger years when he claimed he needed to do >300 devices/day to make a living. That was using a Yankee driver & pair of strippers. That's good production in my book.
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As long as he only "claimed" to do >300/day.
The reality is - he wasn't "making a living" then.
If he was, why is he still working when he is OLD?
;)
 
The trouble with this piece work stuff is that you're often only 1099'd, so that means you're a subcontractor. You'd need to pay your own social security, have insurance, yadda, yadda. Piecework also gets the contractor from paying overtime to go-getter guys who might choose to work long hours and long weeks. When you do the math, piecework doesn't always work in the workman's favor. Just a head's up. If your main intent is just to get more exposure to electrical work, then go for it. Just make sure that you clear up how troubleshooting things that don't work when you power up to check everything is handled. You can blow hours and hours fixing someone else's mistake, not related to your trim out.
 
Piece work lends itself to bad Not my problem" style practices IMO. Never did piece work, never will - by the hour is the only road for me. And considering you're trimming someone elses work who may have been paid the same way .
 
Here are some previous threads on the topic:
[URL="http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=81413&highlight=piece+work"]Question about piece work - 62 replies
[URL="http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=55171&highlight=piece+work"]Piece work vs. hourly wage[/url] - 6 replies
[URL="http://www.mikeholt.com/code_forum/showthread.php?t=55108&highlight=piece+work"]Piece work ?????[/url] - 7 replies[/URL]

I still couldn't find the one I was looking for. :D

IMO, piecework stinks, I would avoid it like the plague, and I usually made money at it. I like it simple; I'll work hard and do my best to earn you a profit as long as the check is the right amount. Having to keep records on my own to know if I'm getting an incorrect check is not my cup of tea.

I didn't have to deal with 1099's or any of that stuff, even. Still hated it. :)
 
Marc,

Thanks for the tips and warnings :)

Oh, and I'd be very impressed by anyone who can trim out 300 devices in a day. Maybe if they were stabbing everything, sure, why not.

A large part of this is getting more exposure and experience. I have one EC that I'm on very good terms with, and I'd like to add a few more to the list. Making a few $$$'s to help pay for gasoline and tires wouldn't hurt, either. Just need to be careful about the tax situation -- part time jobs have a way of costing more than they are worth ...
 
georgestolz said:
IMO, piecework stinks, I would avoid it like the plague, and I usually made money at it. I like it simple; I'll work hard and do my best to earn you a profit as long as the check is the right amount. Having to keep records on my own to know if I'm getting an incorrect check is not my cup of tea.

I didn't have to deal with 1099's or any of that stuff, even. Still hated it. :)
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Well ... if I was trying to earn a living at this, I'd hate it as well. Heck, I've been a salaried employee for the past 10 or 15 years and I've since learned that "salaried" is code language for "all the free overtime you can stand!" I've not been paid $0.01 for overtime in almost 12 years.

You're still plenty young -- there's worse things in life than 1099s. Try keeping track of 401 (k)'s, IRAs, 529 plans, and all sorts of other tax complexities that old age brings.
 
georgestolz said:
Ah, found the thread I was looking for.

____________________________
-Anonymous​
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Thanks for that pointer, George. I'll be sure to include some of the concepts that were discussed in that thread whenever I discuss this with the EC peeps.

And to answer a question you asked in #23 of that thread, there are limitations on who can be considered "salaried" and who is "hourly" and how that entire mess works. The long and short is that you can't just put a burger flipper or Romex monkey on salary, then work them so many hours that their effective rate of pay is less than minimum wage.
 
I guess I'm the odd man out.... again. I had pretty good luck with piece work. No one, and I mean NO ONE could keep up with me back in my prime. I could make pretty darn good money like that.

(300 devices a day, no problem back then)
 
Rockyd said:
Hanging my tools up and leaving the trade. If an OLD electrician can consistantly knock out 300 devices a day, I'll not be able to compete.
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I don't try to compete on any level, I enjoy what I do and if that isn't enough then I will hang it up :).
 
hardworkingstiff said:
I guess I'm the odd man out.... again. I had pretty good luck with piece work. No one, and I mean NO ONE could keep up with me back in my prime. I could make pretty darn good money like that.

(300 devices a day, no problem back then)
Click to expand...

8hr day* 60minutes in an hour= 480 minutes in an 8 hour day
in that 8 hours you need to get the material in the job, morning break, get from 1 device location to the next, clean up lunch, clean up wire pieces, clean up empty device boxes, put plate on, clean up plastic plate wrappers, get the extra plate screw out of your pouch because this 1 didn't have a screw, get trash and excess material out of job. 480/300= 1.6 minutes per device. In my best days I don't remember doing them in less than 5 minutes average with an offset screwdriver.
 
bradleyelectric said:
8hr day* 60minutes in an hour= 480 minutes in an 8 hour day
in that 8 hours you need to get the material in the job, morning break, get from 1 device location to the next, clean up lunch, clean up wire pieces, clean up empty device boxes, put plate on, clean up plastic plate wrappers, get the extra plate screw out of your pouch because this 1 didn't have a screw, get trash and excess material out of job. 480/300= 1.6 minutes per device. In my best days I don't remember doing them in less than 5 minutes average with an offset screwdriver.
Click to expand...

goes with the 1 hr ceiling fan install from start to finish...
 
Jesse,

I want to see an animal that fast, and that old! There's just way to many bumps on the road to think anybody can turn out that kind of production rate. Takes that long to do the "spread" of goods per room, for install, let alone strip and stick, and put a cover over it.

Maybe, just maybe it could be done with

Jet powered roller skates

Fast draw holsters with screw gun on each side

Self filling wire nut pouches on front apron

Team moving ahead to make sure all
devices and support hardware is available
on location

Don't drink anymore than you can sweat out -
ain't got time for pi$$ing around!
 
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