Cheaters in Load Center

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Sum of the breakers do not determine the load in panel. There are calculations that need to be run.

By the way
Welcome to the Forum!
 
LeeLee said:
OK,so a 20 space/20 circuit load center will physically not allow the use of a "cheater" breaker. So it won't allow a 15 amp cheater but what's to stop me from installing a 30 amp double pole?
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Outside of physical rejection how about rules covering overcurrent protection?

Now if you install a 30 and from that supply a feeder that splits into two 15 amp branch circuits (sub panel and two 15 amp breakers) then there is nothing wrong here from overcurrent protection perspective.
 
I'm not sure if the circuit limitation on a panelboard relates to the number of neutral slots or not, but it is one of my beefs with some of these panels -- if you're getting near the max breaker count, I'm usually out of available neutral terminals. You know many of these tandems are going to be 120V circuits requiring a neutral. I've added separate grounding bars to free up neutral slots in Service panels (by getting the grounding conductors off of it), since adding a longer neutral bar is not usually possible.

A 20/20 panel is probably going to have 20 neutral terminals. Chocking it full of tandems is going to be a problem. A 20/40 panel should have about 40 neutral terminals.
 
Suemarkp,

"A 20/20 panel is probably going to have 20 neutral terminals. Chocking it full of tandems is going to be a problem. A 20/40 panel should have about 40 neutral terminals."

I guess what confuses me still is that according to some of the posters on this thread,the bus size(ampacity) of a 20/20 and a 20/40 are the same,so why have a 20/20 at all and just put the 40 neutral terminals in all of them and allow tandems?
 
Sierrasparky,

"Yes it would. What I don't know is why the manufactureres do this other than so they can charge more for a more breaker listed panel. I say this as I have on the shelf some 20/20 panels and some 20/24 panels. Each one has the same thickness buss bar, each one is rated at 125 amps, each one has the same number of spaces. BUT.....
The 20/24 panel has a section cut out of some of the stabs to accept twin breakers. That makes less buss mass than the 20/20 panel.
Other than the sticker on the panel why can't I place a twin in the 20/20 panel."


Based on what you just wrote,I'm confused like you. I hate not understanding something,especially when it doesn't seem to make sense.
 
For dwellings most of this is all a mute point with the number of AFCI's needed these days, unless you can find me a "tandem" AFCI.

Mobile and manufactured homes were real popular places for panels containing tandems and quad breakers. I think weight was one of their main reasons - this thing did have to travel down a road at some point. They also probably purchased them in large enough quantity to get a decent price on them, most of us that wire on site constructed homes don't seem to get that good of a price for tandems to justify their use over the standard breakers - this was the way it was before AFCI came along anyway.
 
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