Chicago and EMT

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Since I'm in the far reaches of the suburbs I've done houses in EMT, NM, and AC. I hardly see a price difference at all, EMT may be a little harder but NM and AC take more home runs. Personally I prefer conduit... its a lot easier to add a wire later for that ceiling fan or 3-way switch. ;)
 
That 25% increase....is that a crew of pipe guys vs a crew of RX guys.

A good pipe crew can easily do the job with that number.

I have done some work at a mall here in NJ....one of the requirements is that all wiring be in EMT - the ONLY exception is 6' whips for flexibility and fixtures.
Personally, I like the idea of EMT in homes...but's just me.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Trevor,

The cost is only about 1.25 x an NM job. I have been told that there will be a presentation at the ROC meeting showing that Chicago has a much lower rate of dwelling unit fires than other parts of the country and that one of the reasons that this is so is the "pipe" code.
Don
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Having done both types of work I don't see how EMT would cost only 25% more vs. NM.

Regarding the fire issue, I would guess that homes with NM cable are more likely to have unqualified persons working on them not that EMT is that much safer.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Trevor,

The cost is only about 1.25 x an NM job. I have been told that there will be a presentation at the ROC meeting showing that Chicago has a much lower rate of dwelling unit fires than other parts of the country and that one of the reasons that this is so is the "pipe" code.
Don
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I have some beach front property in Arizona I'll sell to anyone that believes that .
 
I don't buy it either. I highly doubt most dwelling "electrical" fires are caused by premises wiring anyway, but rather extension cords, space heaters, and appliances being improperly used.
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Trevor,

The cost is only about 1.25 x an NM job. I have been told that there will be a presentation at the ROC meeting showing that Chicago has a much lower rate of dwelling unit fires than other parts of the country and that one of the reasons that this is so is the "pipe" code.
Don
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The lower rate of fires makes sense (no staples or nails through wires, hopefully, better trained electricians). But does it make practical sense. What is the cost/benefit analysis?

I'm by no means anti-union, but it sounds like those areas that have this requirement had a strong union influence on the local code requirements to ensure union labor on residential projects.

BTW, its between $65-$75 an opening for romex installed plugs & switches in this area (northern ca). In 30 years in the trade, I've never done a residence in EMT.
 
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Bate bate chocolate...

Bate bate chocolate...

How's this for stirring the post:

What would be more cost effective? Mandatory AFCI on all 15A and 20A circuits, or EMT for all premises wiring in a dwelling unit? Would EMT prevent more fires than AFCI's?
 
This may sound like a silly question to some in this forum and it is probably meant to be.
Why would anyone in their right mind want to install an Emergency Medical Technician in a dwelling unit for?
Oh! Excuse me; I forgot this is happening where organized crime is, now I understand.
 
jwelectric said:
Oh! Excuse me; I forgot this is happening where organized crime is, now I understand.
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I got a post unceremoniously deleted yesterday for making fun of rural Kentucky. We'll see if this one lasts.
 
acrwc10 said:
Hillsbourogh California also calls for conduit.No MC except to uner cabinet lights.
As far as cost just imagine doing four times the work,with higher material costs.
As far as indoor plumbing we have had that for years.
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I asked an inspector there (Who BTW are RPITA's) why they required Pipe or Flex as none of thier nieghboring towns do.... A; Rats... that chew the NM, (never seen a rat there ever and doubt any of those multi million dollar homes would tolorate one) )and get this, "If there is a fire, you can re-pull it." Sure you can... :rolleyes: You can barely pull >20' in flex unless it is perfectly straight, and doubtfull you gan get the conductors with melted insulation out in the first place..... IMO - they drive up the cost of building there to keep (Ghetto side of) Palo Alto from speading.

Back on NM in resi... Here in SF, as does the code, trigger a "Not Permitted" by building type due to fire and smoke travel and loading of the building for fire rating purposes. Here in SF the trigger is four stories, unless single family dwelling - at that point the fire rating is 3 or 2, (and the higher it goes to type 1) and triggers non-metallic. Which for the most part becomes a mixture of MC and EMT. I imagine that Chicago is simular of thought that way due to the close proximity of buildings at substantial hieghts - and that both towns have burned to the ground a few times in the past..... ;)

And don't think that it prevents fires - but does significantly reduce rate of travel for the fire, and the amount of plastic smoke from the insulation around the fire. And as we all know most people see some burned romex, and it is instantly an "Electrical" cause - even the dried out X-mas tree with 50w halogens hung all over it.... I assume they dont notice burned pipe often....

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BTW I mosly use pipe and MC in my own home....
 
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mdshunk said:
I got a post unceremoniously deleted yesterday for making fun of rural Kentucky.
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IMO your post was over the line.

IMO Mike's is not.

Another Moderator may feel differently.

If you feel you have been treated unfairly you can send a PM to Charlie B asking him to replace it.

Not much on this forum gets deleted, only hidden from view and can be returned.

Bob
 
Bob,
25% is a significant increase.
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Yes but no where near the 300 too 1000% that have been talked about in this thread.
Who sponsored this presentation?
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My information says that it will be part of an anti-AFCI comment submitted to CMP 2...that assumes that the panel chairman will permit it...he is not required to.
Don
 
e57 said:
I asked an inspector there (Who BTW are RPITA's) why they required Pipe or Flex as none of thier nieghboring towns do.... A; Rats... that chew the NM, (never seen a rat there ever and doubt any of those multi million dollar homes would tolorate one) )and get this, "If there is a fire, you can re-pull it." Sure you can... :rolleyes: You can barely pull >20' in flex unless it is perfectly straight, and doubtfull you gan get the conductors with melted insulation out in the first place..... IMO - they drive up the cost of building there to keep (Ghetto side of) Palo Alto from speading.
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BTW I mosly use pipe and MC in my own home....
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The "RATS" answer was the one I got when I asked ''why Pipe?''
What I found really amazing was when I had an inspection they paid zero attention to the number of conductors in a conduit.
A trick I use on flex is to not put the ends in the boxes until after I have pulled my wires on recepticles.This makes it possible to pull upward in most cases.As far as Palo Alto goes ,oh boy what a group they are,Green is not just the color of money there.
 
acrwc10 said:
A trick I use on flex is to not put the ends in the boxes until after I have pulled my wires on recepticles.This makes it possible to pull upward in most cases.As far as Palo Alto goes ,oh boy what a group they are,Green is not just the color of money there.
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Technicaly it is a code violation - I but I do it too....
300.18 Raceway Installations.
(A) Complete Runs. Raceways, other than busways or exposed raceways having hinged or removable covers, shall be installed complete between outlet, junction, or splicing points prior to the installation of conductors. Where required to facilitate the installation of utilization equipment, the raceway shall be permitted to be initially installed without a terminating connection at the equipment. Prewired raceway assemblies shall be permitted only where specifically permitted in this Code for the applicable wiring method.
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And PA has some real winners there - the old guy is the worst - some real wierd ideas about codes and general demeaner. BTW - if you don't have gray hair there is no point in talking to him at all. You may as well not be human. Even if you do have gray hair he thinks he is the all knowing all seeing king of kings - too bad he is 90% wrong 100% of the time.
 
e57 said:
Technicaly it is a code violation - I but I do it too....


And PA has some real winners there - the old guy is the worst - some real wierd ideas about codes and general demeaner. BTW - if you don't have gray hair there is no point in talking to him at all. You may as well not be human. Even if you do have gray hair he thinks he is the all knowing all seeing king of kings - too bad he is 90% wrong 100% of the time.
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I was required to use a torque wrench on the service feeders in front of an inspector in Palo Alto. That was a first!

I also just realized how stupid it was to sign my name to my Replies! Duh!
 
Aging of electrical wiring is a topic that is gaining momentum. A home wired with EMT can be rewired in about a day. How long does it take to rewire a home that used romex as a wiring method?
 
Aging of electrical wiring is becoming a hot topic. A single family with EMT as the wiring method can be rewired in about a day -- depending on the size. How long would it take to rewire a home done in romex?
 
finhead said:
Aging of electrical wiring is becoming a hot topic. A single family with EMT as the wiring method can be rewired in about a day -- depending on the size. How long would it take to rewire a home done in romex?
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Do you really think any of the cracker box houses that are being built today are going to last long enough for the wiring to deteriorate.

Just try to find a builder or homeowner that's looking 50 years into the future. A slate roof last much longer than asphalt shingles and brick is much more durable than vinyl siding.

If you are going to build quality then you need to start from the ground up.
 
Fin, look for this:
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