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I think we should all go do a stint in Chicago doing residential.
How do they do under cabinet lights? in a 2x4 wall?
Where are the pictures?
 
mikeames said:
I knew this from reading other posts in the past. My question is and always has been...How the heck do you do that??? Do you use 1000's of couplings? How do you get the pipe in the wall? Do you pipe from the bottom and top instead? Seems crazy. It would be worse than plumbing pipes. Maybe you could pipe the house before the sheathing goes on and use a 30 foot bit to drill through the entire wall....Then just slide er in.....and cut where needed.
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I bent my first piece of thinwall (yea I'm old) :D back in '78. I couldn't rope a house if my life depended on it, not quickly anyways. I have run some rope but not much. I've never installed one of them blue boxes.

The better you get, the fewer the couplings, but 1000's for the greener guys :D The 360 rule is usually the biggest bone of contention. Mostly bottom to top, then top to bottom, but sometimes through the wall. I like running pipe. It can go quickiy, the remodeling of the system is a piece of cake, arc faults are not really a concern, and the panel areas look a bit cleaner.

walkerj said:
I think we should all go do a stint in Chicago doing residential.
How do they do under cabinet lights? in a 2x4 wall?
Where are the pictures?
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Sometimes we can hit an under cabinet 12 volt lighting system with nm, depends on the ahj. Otherwise, it's fmc whip.

I could probably find one or two taverns out here when you all come for your stint :D
 
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to reiterate what triplstep said, i would have no idea how to rope a house, trim and support mc, etc. give me some pipe and no problem. big or small no biggie. the only romex you'll see on our jobs is for temp. lighting..
 
LJSMITH1 said:
I was also told that the Unions have "influenced" the AHJ's and local codes to only allow tube or pipe installs - resi and commercial - even though the NEC allows such wiring methods. The AHJ's and union members absolutely refuse to consider AC/MC or NM as an acceptable (and compliant) alternative. The unwritten and unspoken reasons are that it is much quicker to install and thus takes less labor to do it. This was verified by a local Chicago union electrician who validated this to me without prompting..
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LJ, I believe you've crossed the line into anti-union sentiment. Further posts along these lines will be deleted, it's not permitted. You can say what you want, just leave the union/merit/conspiracy aspect out of the conversation if you would, please. :)
 
George,

I had no intent to fuel anti-union sentiment. I was only relaying what I have been told by others - firsthand. Those sentiments illustrated my point that there are probably other reasons (aside from technical) that *may* be a factor in why the Chicago-Land area prefers EMT over AC/MC or NM cable - especially in residential use.

Please accept my apologies if I offended anyone.:cool:
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
As far as the rule in the NEC you have to remember that the NEC is a minimum standard, and there are many things that can be made safer if you install to a standard higher than that minimum.
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Then why not specify/use rigid in every application? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just illustrating while NM or AC/MC may be considered a minimum, they are also considered safe and acceptable in the application and environment for which they were designed.:)
 
LJSMITH1 said:
Then why not specify/use rigid in every application? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just illustrating while NM or AC/MC may be considered a minimum, they are also considered safe and acceptable in the application and environment for which they were designed.:)
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My point exactly and while your at it make it explosion proof. You never know when someone will store gasoline in the house, or run their own grain mill. I think most of us know the NEC is a min, but that also does not mean the min is poor quality.
 
mikeames said:
My point exactly and while your at it make it explosion proof. You never know when someone will store gasoline in the house, or run their own grain mill. I think most of us know the NEC is a min, but that also does not mean the min is poor quality.
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does decora make cl1 div1 intrinsically safe switches?

me, i'm not gonna fool around with shortcutting the job
by using plain old ridgid, or even ocal........

nope. not me. i'm gonna use stainless steel rigid.
and stainless lb's and fittings.... and i'll send 'em
out for polishing before installing them....

you can get them here.....

http://www.gibsonstainless.com/stainless_steel_conduit.htm

go ahead, ask them how much a 2" stainless LB costs... go
ahead, i dare you!


randy
 
LJSMITH1 said:
Then why not specify/use rigid in every application? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am just illustrating while NM or AC/MC may be considered a minimum, they are also considered safe and acceptable in the application and environment for which they were designed.:)
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It is just a point where you draw the line. One of the substatiations for AFCIs involved the in wall damage when it is hit by a picture hanger nail or something like that....that type of damage is less likely with EMT and much less likely if you had rigid conduit.
I have never said that NM is not safe. It is, but other methods are safer and the code writers in Chicago have decided that EMT is what they want. It works well for them and if you don't live or work there, what difference does it really make? If you do, then you have to do it their way.
As far as the use of rigid, I grew up in a house that was piped in rigid in a town when NM is permitted. The rigid was all bent on a tri-stand vice and hand threaded.
 
I wonder what kind of thoughts went through the mind of all the knob and tube guys, when conduit or some other wiring method replaced it?
 
russ said:
I wonder what kind of thoughts went through the mind of all the knob and tube guys, when conduit or some other wiring method replaced it?
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"You mean we can run both wires in one cable???? WOW this stuff is awesome!!!,,,,,, No insulators ????? GEEES where has this stuff been all my life.
 
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