Chinese hot tub not listed

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Ditto here--UL listed is required by spec many times on certain products for a job. Many, many things are not listed. Running large projects in Chicago for many years I had the issue come up fairly often---it was union training many times so I would just have another employee connect the equipment or do the task. I always felt it was ridiculous--UL is not God--a UL label does not necessarily mean the product is good---it means it passed a test or battery of tests. Any product in your hand could be defective
 
Much like a hussman 5 compressor array inspector looked over our 400a feeder to the
unit but breezed by the loose factory installed cables inside the unit. equipment or
plumbing fixtures seem not to matter but with lighting there is always the question
is that ul listed *scratches head*
 
WA state has had a state electrical law in place since 1934 requiring products to be listed. Language for hot tubs was specifically added in the early 1980s when hot tubs became popular.
 
It may shock some folks to learn that UL's involvement in the 'hot tub' business is fairly minor, and it's not just the Chinese who are selling 'unlisted' products.

Even within the UL listing, there is a hopeless mess of variations ... complete units, 'skid packages,' etc.

Jacuzzi - the very firm that got this all going - does not list its' products.

Just as important, it is not proper for the government to require you to do business with any private party; code cannot require a "UL listing." Perhaps UL is the 'leading brand,' but codes are required to accept other certifications.

UL once liked to try to dance around the law, attempting to write code 'specifications' that removed the competition from consideration- but that all went out the window the day UL accepted ISO 9000 certification. These days, ANY firm with such an ISO certification can insist that its' approval also be accepted.
 
renosteinke said:
It may shock some folks to learn that UL's involvement in the 'hot tub' business is fairly minor, and it's not just the Chinese who are selling 'unlisted' products.

Even within the UL listing, there is a hopeless mess of variations ... complete units, 'skid packages,' etc.

Jacuzzi - the very firm that got this all going - does not list its' products.

Just as important, it is not proper for the government to require you to do business with any private party; code cannot require a "UL listing." Perhaps UL is the 'leading brand,' but codes are required to accept other certifications.

UL once liked to try to dance around the law, attempting to write code 'specifications' that removed the competition from consideration- but that all went out the window the day UL accepted ISO 9000 certification. These days, ANY firm with such an ISO certification can insist that its' approval also be accepted.
Click to expand...

UL writes Standards that put measurable parameters around performance. Anybody can claim conformance, but you need a 3rd party, independent testing to make it believable.
 
Not to split hairs, but it is important to understand that UL does NOT test "performance.' Their tests are strictly focused upon, as their motto used to say, "testing for public safety." There is NO requirement that the product work - let alone work well. (This would become all too clear if it were easier to actually obtain, and read, one of their standards !!!)

Nor, in many cases, are the standards 'their' standards. Even when UL was the 'author,' often thay have given up control of the standard by having it ANSI or ASTM adopted. In addition, they make great efforts to have their standards conform to codes and stndards developed by completely separate bodies.

I do not say this to "disrespect" UL, nor do I say UL is the "cats' meow." Their input - as in the dispute over 'classified' breakers - is often valuable. Nor, ultimately, does this discussion have anything to do with UL.

I cannot stress this enough: The AHJ is the AHJ! That is, the responsibility is on HIS shoulders, and his alone. The presence of UL sticker, or a quote from a code book, are only tools he can use to help him make his decisions. Far too often folks take the lazy way out, and blame UL for the decisions THEY must make.

Ultimately, there may be a difference of opinion between the government (the AHJ) and the governed (us). Again, the listing information and code books are but tools we use to identify the issues. Then we both get our shot at persuading a dozen strangers as to our view ... but that's going a bit beyond this topic.
 
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