Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

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inspector 102

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The local recpetion hall has installed christmas tree lighting across the span of the room to create mood lighting. The local fire inspector states that this is a violation of codes and have to be removed. The lights are plugged in only on evenings when there is a function, and only one strand is used on each run. Has anyone done this for a function and what concerns should be watched for the span of lights. Like normal, the fire inspector did not reference a code section for compliance. Thanks for the help.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

The NEC requires decorative lighting to be listed and can only be used for a period of 90 days. Its unclear when the 90 day period starts.
See Article 590
I have seen decorative lighting overheat and catch on fire, on a GFCI circuit. A good soulution would be an AFCI circuit breaker. This application was proposed for the 2002 NEC but was not accepted.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

It seems pretty clear that if the term "use" is the word, then its while the lights are on, since they are not in use any other time.

If they meant to say 90 days of installation, they could have said that.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

I can understand feeling uncomfortable with the installation.

But.

Uncomfortable isn't a code violation.

I've seen fire departments behave as if they're above needing to site code all too may times. I'm on their side when there's actually a hazard. (I like the fire guys, when they're not full of themselves). And I've also seen them at a complete loss as to what the code is.

Using Christmas lights as pemanent? Alright, cheesy. Uncommon? No. Good idea, I don't know.

I think the question turns into something different.

Are the stupid things inherently unsafe?

Why should they even be legal to begin with?

Are they built to work for only ninety days, after which the spontaneously convert themselves into a fire hazard?

If they're not safe in 90 days how were they safe the first day.

To me this looks more like BS than safty.

Edit: Or more like BS than code, or something.

[ June 13, 2005, 10:42 PM: Message edited by: physis ]
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

It would appear that the UL listing will typically state that decorative string lights are intended for seasonal, temporary use, not to exceed 90 days per year. As stated previously, what happens on the ninety first day that changes the characteristics of the lights. The fire inspector appears to be concerned that the lighting, which when used on Saturday nights, creates such a hazard that during the week when it is unplugged still creates a violation of fire code. I am wondering if he is concerned about a build-up of residual electrons spilling back out on the floor when no-one is around. That could explain the fire hazard.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

I am wondering if he is concerned about a build-up of residual electrons spilling back out on the floor when no-one is around.
Click to expand...
Actually the only time that happens is when the plug is hanging and the prongs are facing the floor. Gravity will pull the electrons out.
If any of the little light bulbs are missing, electrons will leak out there also.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

I'd be a little concerned about the span if the lighting is not supported frequently by hooks or a messenger wire. Those little conductors are only about 18 gauge or smaller.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

The name of this thread is "Christmas Lights - Assembly Area"

Does this mean it is a "Place of assembly"

If so are Christmas lights a valid 'wiring method' for a place of assembly? :p
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

I don't think Christmas tree lights are a wiring method. :D
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

Originally posted by physis:
I don't think Christmas tree lights are a wiring method. :D
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I would agree except in this case they are not Christmas lights, they are mood lighting and where installed with the intention of them staying there longer than 90 days. :p
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

I'm not gonna lok it up, but, is "Christmas trees light" or "mood lights" in the book? :)
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

Originally posted by physis:
I'm not gonna lok it up, but, is "Christmas trees light" or "mood lights" in the book? :D

But if you go with the UL listing it is for temporary use.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

Well, then the NEC isn't addressing these lights, because, clearly, they're not "holiday lights" in this case. Unless we're going to use the advertising on the box. And still, did the box say "holiday"? :(
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

Originally posted by physis:
I don't think Christmas tree lights are a wiring method. :D
Click to expand...
Whoops. Guess I know what I'm doing tommorrow... :D

I am wondering if he is concerned about a build-up of residual electrons spilling back out on the floor when no-one is around.
Click to expand...
Have you seen what those electrons will do to tile? I get the willys just thinking about it. That's why I wear spark rings and aluminum foil to bed. :cool:
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

You know that the electrons are poured into the tiny divits in the round thing that spins in the meter and that's where they get counted before going into the wires and leaking out of improperly oriented receptacles.
 
Re: Christmas Lights - Assembly Area

Originally posted by physis:
Well, then the NEC isn't addressing these lights, because, clearly, they're not "holiday lights" in this case. Unless we're going to use the advertising on the box. And still, did the box say "holiday"? :(
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OK Satan. :D

Regarless of what the promotions department called these lights if the UL listing is DGVT on the tag then they must be used per this listing. ;)

SEASONAL AND HOLIDAY
DECORATIVE PRODUCTS (DGVT)

This category covers temporary use, seasonal decorative lighting products and accessories with a maximum input rating of 120 V ac. Temporary use is considered to be a period of installation and use not to exceed 90 days per year. A seasonal product is a product painted in colors to suggest a holiday theme or a snow covering, a figure in a holiday costume, or any decoration associated with a holiday or a particular season of the year.

Products covered under this category are factory assembled, portable, and intended for connection to a receptacle.

In Listing seasonal and holiday decorative products, it is assumed that any medium base, intermediate base, candelabra base, miniature base or midget-base lamps to be used in these products are made in accordance with American National Standards Institute specifications, as well as the applicable requirements in UL 588, ??Seasonal and Holiday Decorative Products.?? The use of lamps that are not in conformance with such standards may present shock hazards or high temperature conditions that are in excess of safe limits of operation.

This category does not cover nonseasonal lighting, nonseasonal products, permanently connected products, nondecorative lighting intended for general illumination only, cord sets (extension cords) or relocatable power taps.
Click to expand...
 
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