Circuit Breaker Testing

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mull982

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We had an insurance person in here yesterday questioning us about the frequency of testing of our CB's and Transformers. Although there is no set PM in place for the testing of these devices I did find that the most recent time any of this testing was done was back in 2005.

Is there a standard for how often circuit breakers and relays should be tested. I was going to have a testing company come test all our 5kV breakers and relays and wanted to find out how often this should be done in order to set up a re-occuring test?

Aside from meggering and Hi-Potting the 5kV vaccum breakers, is there any other test that should be performed on these breakers? I am going to have all relays secondary current injected tested.

Most of our transforemrs are all dry-type and therefore do not need oil sampling. Are there any electrical tests that should routinely be perfromed on transformers (1000-1500kVA) and if so how often?

Just wanted to hear others thoughts and experiences.
 
Go to the iNternational Electrical Testing Agency website, www.netaworld.org and get the Standard for Maintenance Testing Specifications.
Although it looks like it's $275....

They will require, among other things: annual operation of every breaker; testing of most breakers on a bi-annual basis; thermal scans; oil sampling and testing; etc.

I spent 15 years at a plant site insured by Factory Mutual. Their requirements were met by our adherence to the NETA spec.

JM
 
mull982 said:
We had an insurance person in here yesterday questioning us about the frequency of testing of our CB's and Transformers. Although there is no set PM in place for the testing of these devices I did find that the most recent time any of this testing was done was back in 2005.

Is there a standard for how often circuit breakers and relays should be tested.
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Look at the NFPA 70B or NETA, NETA uses a relibility based testing interval schedule, you can download the frequency of maintnence tests free at the NETA website www.netaworld.org

mull982 said:
Aside from meggering and Hi-Potting the 5kV vaccum breakers, is there any other test that should be performed on these breakers? I am going to have all relays secondary current injected tested.
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There are quite a few inspection points that are done, contact erosion is an important one for VCB's. Also should do a vacuum bottle integrity test, contact resistance, power factor test or better yet PD testing and timing tests. Refer to the NETA MTS 2007 for a full listing.

mull982 said:
Most of our transforemrs are all dry-type and therefore do not need oil sampling. Are there any electrical tests that should routinely be perfromed on transformers (1000-1500kVA) and if so how often?
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Insulation resitance, including DAR and PI. 3 sets for each, H-LG, L-HG, and HL-G.
Winding resistance
Test all bolted connections with DLRO
TTR (Very important)
There are many more inspection points and functional tests of thermocouples, fan set points, grounding, etc.....

mull982 said:
Just wanted to hear others thoughts and experiences.
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If you need to do this testing to meet a requirement from your insurance company be sure to read the requirements carefully, most require the testing to be done by a NETA certified tech working for a NETA company. There are several companies out there that use the NETA specs and say they do NETA testing but are not certified. The NETA website has a full list of NETA certified companies. I know just about every NETA company out there, I have been very involved in NETA for many years and can recommend a good local one for you if you like, just PM me.
 
zog said:
If you need to do this testing to meet a requirement from your insurance company be sure to read the requirements carefully, most require the testing to be done by a NETA certified tech working for a NETA company. There are several companies out there that use the NETA specs and say they do NETA testing but are not certified. The NETA website has a full list of NETA certified companies. I know just about every NETA company out there, I have been very involved in NETA for many years and can recommend a good local one for you if you like, just PM me.
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As I understand it, almost no repair technician employed by a manufacturer can be NETA certified. Since NETA changed their certification requirements they now only apply independent companies.
 
jim dungar said:
As I understand it, almost no repair technician employed by a manufacturer can be NETA certified. Since NETA changed their certification requirements they now only apply independent companies.
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That is correct, it has always been that way. The reason is that it is necessary to maintain an unbiased viewpoint on causes for failures and recommendations for corrective actions. OEM techs will always have the best interest in thier employers that made the equipment and not necesarily the owners. The company also has to have 85% of its income from power system testing, cant be a shop that does other stuff and also testing, testing has to be your core business.

It has nothing to do with the technical knowledge or capability of the OEM's feild service poeple, many of them are ex NETA guys and many NETA guys have worked for an OEM at one time.

Independent third party testing, that is what NETA is all about.
 
zog said:
That is correct, it has always been that way. The reason is that it is necessary to maintain an unbiased viewpoint on causes for failures and recommendations for corrective actions.
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This is like saying that an automotive repair department at car dealerships is not trustworthy when making recommendations but a backyard mechanic with a certificate is.
 
jim dungar said:
This is like saying that an automotive repair department at car dealerships is not trustworthy when making recommendations but a backyard mechanic with a certificate is.
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I could have predicted that response, this arguement has been made by the OEM's for years, been to many board meetings on this.

It is not the same but using your analogy if you like the GM dealer is going to recommend AC delco parts for your car, dosent matter if it is the best part to use or not, thats what the factory trains them to use.

Plus most facilities have switchgear from several different manufactures, and the OEM feild tech is most likely only trained on specific gear.

NETA certification is a heck of alot more than "A certificate", take a look at the requirements.
 
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I purposely don't use Square D Services whenever humanly possible simply because I resent the fact that a vendor is also a competitor.
 
zog said:
NETA certification is a heck of alot more than "A certificate", take a look at the requirements.
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IMO, NETA test requirements are nothing more than a dog and pony show, (and yes we have the book) we usualy exclude these requirements in our scope letter.

We have no problem with providing start-ups, certifications, testing of equipment, etc..., but many NETA requirements are a joke, once again, this is my opinion.

Roger
 
5 years NETA 24 years not. Never had one issue, we question any spec and ask WHY? Most customers want us and work with us.
 
zog said:
Plus most facilities have switchgear from several different manufactures, and the OEM feild tech is most likely only trained on specific gear.
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Primary injection testing of 480V power circuit breakers is not manufacturer specific. Dry type and liquid filled transformer testing and maintenance is not manufacturer specific. Cleaning bus bars and insulators is not manufacturer specific. NETA is a good program but it should not be the primary consideration.

Another resource for the OP is NFPA70B for maintenance of electrical equipment.
 
roger said:
IMO, NETA test requirements are nothing more than a dog and pony show, (and yes we have the book) we usualy exclude these requirements in our scope letter.

We have no problem with providing start-ups, certifications, testing of equipment, etc..., but many NETA requirements are a joke, once again, this is my opinion.

Roger
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NETA is an ANSI spec, are they a joke too? Just because you have the book dosent mean squat. I have a NEC book but that dosent mean I am qualified to do installations.
 
jim dungar said:
Primary injection testing of 480V power circuit breakers is not manufacturer specific. Dry type and liquid filled transformer testing and maintenance is not manufacturer specific. Cleaning bus bars and insulators is not manufacturer specific. NETA is a good program but it should not be the primary consideration.

Another resource for the OP is NFPA70B for maintenance of electrical equipment.
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Jim. I cant argue with anthing you said here, but some insurance companies think otherwise, that was the point of my post. BTW, I am no longer NETA or work for a NETA company, I just believe in the concept.
 
zog said:
NETA is an ANSI spec, are they a joke too?
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I'm not willing to call any spec a joke, but the fact that any spec is also an ANSI spec doesn't give it automatic legitimacy in my mind. If ANSI is missing a spec on something, the process is not that hard to get a recognized spec for that missing area adopted as an ANSI spec. I think of ANSI as a big virtual binder of the most prominent specs for each given area of knowledge.
 
brian john said:
5 years NETA 24 years not. Never had one issue, we question any spec and ask WHY? Most customers want us and work with us.
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Brian, I have folowed you for a long time here, I know you ( I think) and know your company, I think you and your guys are just as qualified as most NETA companies but you are a rare exception, why dont you (your company) get NETA certified?
 
zog said:
Brian, I have folowed you for a long time here, I know you ( I think) and know your company, I think you and your guys are just as qualified as most NETA companies but you are a rare exception, why dont you (your company) get NETA certified?
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Seems like I remember Brian saying something before about too much money for no realized gain. I'm kinda curious myself now, but that's what I think I remember him saying once.
 
Thanks for all the responses guys, theres a lot of good information. I'm gonna spend some time on the NETA website and look into many of the tests that others have listed.
 
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