Circuit Breaker Type and Compatibility with Panel

[ez0k]

I have a 400 Amp MLO panel which we need to use to feed a new 200 Amp panel at 277/480 via a 200 amp circuit breaker. Unfortunately, I was not able to visit the site and the only additional information I have is this picture:



(I hope you all can see that, never posted a picture before and it looks too small.)

My question is, can we get / install a 200 Amp breaker in this panel? The largest existing breaker in all of the other panels is 100 Amp. I'm still pretty new at this and cannot tell just by looking at the picture.

One more question, would a circuit breaker be the most cost effective option? I am not sure if this panel has feed through lugs available, but I was thinking of using a separately enclosed 200 Amp breaker fed from the bus of this existing panel since there are currently no available spaces. We are currently planning on re-circuiting an existing three phase load to the new panel to free up space for the proposed circuit breaker.

Thank You!

 

[templdl]

I have a 400 Amp MLO panel which we need to use to feed a new 200 Amp panel at 277/480 via a 200 amp circuit breaker. Unfortunately, I was not able to visit the site and the only additional information I have is this picture:

View attachment 8260

(I hope you all can see that, never posted a picture before and it looks too small.)

My question is, can we get / install a 200 Amp breaker in this panel? The largest existing breaker in all of the other panels is 100 Amp. I'm still pretty new at this and cannot tell just by looking at the picture.

One more question, would a circuit breaker be the most cost effective option? I am not sure if this panel has feed through lugs available, but I was thinking of using a separately enclosed 200 Amp breaker fed from the bus of this existing panel since there are currently no available spaces. We are currently planning on re-circuiting an existing three phase load to the new panel to free up space for the proposed circuit breaker.

Thank You!

Looks like these are 100A frames and as such it would be most unlikely that 100A would be a maximum.
It is interesting that you committed a picture of the nameplate for the panel. It appears as though it's a sub panel with no main and there is no indication as to what the feeder breaker rating is for that panel which may or may not be an issue.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

That looks like a TEY and I think the maximum size is 125 amps for that series of breakers.

 

[kwired]

That looks like a TEY and I think the maximum size is 125 amps for that series of breakers.

My thoughts too, and I am a Square D guy, but have run into a few TEY panels.

If it has subfeed lugs on the bus you are lucky (assuming you have capacity for the added load), otherwise you can tap the feeder, but it will not be quite as simple as subfeed lugs.

 

[kwired]

Looks like these are 100A frames and as such it would be most unlikely that 100A would be a maximum.
It is interesting that you committed a picture of the nameplate for the panel. It appears as though it's a sub panel with no main and there is no indication as to what the feeder breaker rating is for that panel which may or may not be an issue.

OP indicated it is a 400A MLO, but did not confirm it is supplied with a 400 amp feeder.

 

[templdl]

OP indicated it is a 400A MLO, but did not confirm it is supplied with a 400 amp feeder.

This is an example of the OP provide a very minimum of information and those responding start submitting their best guesses to what the OP may be asking. The OP omitted to even in clued the name plate for the panel.

 

[Little Bill]

This is an example of the OP provide a very minimum of information and those responding start submitting their best guesses to what the OP may be asking. The OP omitted to even in clued the name plate for the panel.

Maybe because he said this:

Unfortunately, I was not able to visit the site and the only additional information I have is this picture:

He just gave what info he had. Agreed more info would help but if that's all he had...well..!

 

[kwired]

This is an example of the OP provide a very minimum of information and those responding start submitting their best guesses to what the OP may be asking. The OP omitted to even in clued the name plate for the panel.

Well the TEY line is pretty easy to recognize to people that have been around them. I don't think GE has another line with enough similarities to mistake it very easily for the TEY series. That series does only include 15 - 125 amps devices.

Picture in this link seems to have had a little change in the look, but I am pretty certain the picture in OP is TEY series.

 

[templdl]

Well the TEY line is pretty easy to recognize to people that have been around them. I don't think GE has another line with enough similarities to mistake it very easily for the TEY series. That series does only include 15 - 125 amps devices.

Picture in this link seems to have had a little change in the look, but I am pretty certain the picture in OP is TEY series.

Since GE is not an off brand one would like to think that the OP wouldn't have had to ask the question which should have run up a red flag. With all due respect one would like to think that he has the experience to have know this. A simple phone call made to GE should have confirmed this for him.
If he did then his question would simply be what are his option as to how he can add a 200a breaker to the exist ion sub panel. Whether the existing frames are 15-100 or 15-125a does it matter. It certainly isn't 225 or 250 frames.
But it isn't all that uncommon for a 250a frame to be the be the same width as a 100, 125, or even a 150a frame but the 250 frame would be longer while still occupying the same 'X' space. But his panel appears to be limited to TEY breakers anyway.
Then while on the phone with GE he could ask if the panel would accept sub or through feed lugs.
There's nothing like making a simple phone call to the manufacturer to find out what your options are.
It is of my opinion that he may be backed into a corner with no means to add a 200a breaker directly to the panel and not have a way to modify the panel with through or sub feed lugs.
How do you see it?

 

[kwired]

There's nothing like making a simple phone call to the manufacturer to find out what your options are.

Making that call may not be that simple. Talking to a local distributor or looking in a catalog (hard copy, or online) maybe much faster.

 

[templdl]

Making that call may not be that simple. Talking to a local distributor or looking in a catalog (hard copy, or online) maybe much faster.

You are right. But even the competency of a distributor may be questionable at best and having access to a catalog may be difficult. Calling GE customer support directly and providing them with the NP info for the panel they should have information for the panel if it is not a currently available product. Often times the distributor would be calling them anyway.

 

[ez0k]

Thank You Everyone

Thank You Everyone

Hey guys, sorry about not responding to questions / comments on this post sooner.

Our solution ended up being completely avoiding this panel because of the uncertainty. We tapped upstream and are providing a wire trough with separately enclosed circuit breakers to feed this existing panel and the new one. Templdl and others are correct about 125A being the maximum circuit breaker size, as I followed templdl's advise and got on the phone with a GE rep who confirmed the CB type. We do know there is enough capacity for the new load, and this 400A MLO panel is fed with 500 MCM. There was no way to know if sub feed lugs were available so I had to assume they weren't.

As I said, I wasn't there and the employee who took the pictures did not do a very good job of documenting. I had to go with the information available, which was this picture and some beat up drawings from the 70's. A lot of work has been done to this building over the years so even those could not be trusted. In hindsight, this post was unnecessary, but I did learn about a type of panel I wasn't familiar with thanks to you all.

 

[templdl]

Hey guys, sorry about not responding to questions / comments on this post sooner.

Our solution ended up being completely avoiding this panel because of the uncertainty. We tapped upstream and are providing a wire trough with separately enclosed circuit breakers to feed this existing panel and the new one. Templdl and others are correct about 125A being the maximum circuit breaker size, as I followed templdl's advise and got on the phone with a GE rep who confirmed the CB type. We do know there is enough capacity for the new load, and this 400A MLO panel is fed with 500 MCM. There was no way to know if sub feed lugs were available so I had to assume they weren't.

As I said, I wasn't there and the employee who took the pictures did not do a very good job of documenting. I had to go with the information available, which was this picture and some beat up drawings from the 70's. A lot of work has been done to this building over the years so even those could not be trusted. In hindsight, this post was unnecessary, but I did learn about a type of panel I wasn't familiar with thanks to you all.

Thank you. While employed as a sales and applications engineer for 18 years for one of 2 of the largest domestic distribution protection and control manufacturers I welcomed application question such as yours. But some like trying figuring out themselves when a simple call to the manufacturer often provides an accurate answer to a question. I had the access to a history catalogs, renewal parts lists, drawings as well as a brain trust of very knowledgeable individuals with years of experience at the manufacturing plants.

 

[ez0k]

Thank you. While employed as a sales and applications engineer for 18 years for one of 2 of the largest domestic distribution protection and control manufacturers I welcomed application question such as yours. But some like trying figuring out themselves when a simple call to the manufacturer often provides an accurate answer to a question. I had the access to a history catalogs, renewal parts lists, drawings as well as a brain trust of very knowledgeable individuals with years of experience at the manufacturing plants.

To be honest, this is a lesson I've had to learn a few times. On multiple occasions I just assumed it would be faster to figure it out myself, only to end up getting the answer from someone in your previous position. They've always been extremely helpful and a pleasure to deal with.

 

[jim dungar]

But some like trying figuring out themselves when a simple call to the manufacturer often provides an accurate answer to a question. I had the access to a history catalogs, renewal parts lists, drawings as well as a brain trust of very knowledgeable individuals with years of experience at the manufacturing plants.

I am always amazed out how much more likely people are to believe the generalized and limited experience of internet forums, and totally ignore the actual application assistance offered by most manufacturers.

It seems many people associate manufacturer's tech support with what they get from salespeople. Even phone center support can be helpful when you are looking for information that can be found in FAQs and look up databases, for these people though you cannot use regional slang when describing your problem or product.

 

[templdl]

I am always amazed out how much more likely people are to believe the generalized and limited experience of internet forums, and totally ignore the actual application assistance offered by most manufacturers.

It seems many people associate manufacturer's tech support with what they get from salespeople. Even phone center support can be helpful when you are looking for information that can be found in FAQs and look up databases, for these people though you cannot use regional slang when describing your problem or product.

I have that even tech support is not what it used to be because people are not in a position long enough to become the experts as they should be. I made it a point to attend the same seminars on electrical safely and the NEC as my customers attended. I wanted to be on the same page as my customers so that we could work together. And, yes, those who used regional slang can confuse the issue. It was not uncommon for me to state my concern for those who appear to be lacking knowledge of safe electrical practices and procedures. To address questions blinding would be like handing someone with no firearms experience a loaded gun.

 

[jim dungar]

I have that even tech support is not what it used to be because people are not in a position long enough to become the experts as they should be.

No question, inexperience is a big problem, however if there is a level 2 support or a good FAQ database, I say it is worth contacting the manufacturer. Absolutely the response will not always be worth it.

 

[jmellc]

Good thing you avoided the project. Never commit to something where you have not seen the site & equipment. The bigger the job, the more important this rule is. Customer will show you what he wants you to see, either from ignorance or deliberately. Then you get on the hook. Customer may know that someone nearby got a similar job done. Meaningless; no 2 jobs are alike. That other job may have been with equipment currently on the market, easy to find.

You may have opened the panel to find corroded bus bars or other damage, meaning it was about to die, on your dime.

 

[templdl]

Good thing you avoided the project. Never commit to something where you have not seen the site & equipment. The bigger the job, the more important this rule is. Customer will show you what he wants you to see, either from ignorance or deliberately. Then you get on the hook. Customer may know that someone nearby got a similar job done. Meaningless; no 2 jobs are alike. That other job may have been with equipment currently on the market, easy to find.

You may have opened the panel to find corroded bus bars or other damage, meaning it was about to die, on your dime.

Oh how I can't even count the times I have had questions posed to me in a manor to get an answer that they wanted to get. By being mislead you could be proving the with which could end up to be a very dangerous answer not unlike handing them a loaded gun.
The they will blame by saying that "you said." One has to cautious about being lead down the primrose path is our industry because the results could end up to be catastrophic.