Circuit drawing 3 way please comment

[jap]

Only turn some of the service disconnects off, in a set of two to six disconnects.

Yes, but in the 2-6 movements,you are disconnecting the power to whatever you are working on selectively, unlike what is pictured in this 3way setup.
The disconnect does not actually disconnect. The 3way is more like a transfer switch.

Heck, for that matter you could pull 1 fuse out of a 2p disconnect to a 1ph 240v motor and make it stop, but its still not disconnected.

Following the rule in the NEC for this type of installation is like trusting a GPS until you drive right off the edge of a cliff. At some point you need to use your common sense.

 

[al hildenbrand]

At some point you need to use your common sense.

If 225.36 did not specifically reference 225.31, I'd say that you might have an argument that one has to "fully" disconnect the ungrounded conductors.

But.

225.36 goes out of its way to label a threeway and a fourway snap switch, used in residential outbuildings and garages as the disconnecting means required in 225.31.

The common sense is that any threeway and fourway does NOT interrupt all conductors to it, but, even so, the Code says either MAY BE the 225.31 disconnecting means.

There is no qualifier to that.

Nothing more is said about having to disconnect the "undisconnected" conductors that pass through three- and fourways, nor is anything said about putting additional disconnecting means in series with the three- or fourway disconnecting means.

 

[jap]

I agree with what you are reading and how you interpret it and one would probably be code compliant by installing it this way.

But I would'nt because I know better.

What if I bought this house and my kid broke the light bulb out of the socket.
His Dad being "the electrician" has the 2p and the 3way labeled "Disconnect".
He shuts both off thinking he has disconnected the power and takes his needle nose and proceeds to remove the broken lamp from the socket.
I meanwhile am in the house and need to go out to the out building so I flip on the 3way in the house. If he got shocked in the Out Building I don't think I could even explain to him why a disconnect wasn't actually a disconnect.I would never do it as it is drawn just because the code said I could.

 

[480sparky]

If 225.36 did not specifically reference 225.31, I'd say that you might have an argument that one has to "fully" disconnect the ungrounded conductors. ........

Why the hangup on the word 'fully'?

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

I agree with what you are reading and how you interpret it and one would probably be code compliant by installing it this way.

But I would'nt because I know better.

What if I bought this house and my kid broke the light bulb out of the socket.
His Dad being "the electrician" has the 2p and the 3way labeled "Disconnect".
He shuts both off thinking he has disconnected the power and takes his needle nose and proceeds to remove the broken lamp from the socket.
I meanwhile am in the house and need to go out to the out building so I flip on the 3way in the house. If he got shocked in the Out Building I don't think I could even explain to him why a disconnect wasn't actually a disconnect.I would never do it as it is drawn just because the code said I could.

You have to remember Charlie's Rule.

"Common sense", when you get right down to it is ironically objective.

 

[jap]

Whatever that means.

 

[Twoskinsoneman]

Whatever that means.

You certainly are a joy.

 

[al hildenbrand]

Why the hangup on the word 'fully'?

Yeah, OK . . . . I admit it. I'm picking on what I take to be a code-word (note, not Code) for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors no matter what the Code says. Wwhitney introduced it last page, post 31. I just felt it needed to be beat up a bit.

 

[al hildenbrand]

I agree with what you are reading and how you interpret it and one would probably be code compliant by installing it this way.

Thank you for that.

You are certainly welcome to do more than the minimum of the NEC, and when you do it for pay, if you can be paid for that, so much the better.

 

[electroflash1@hotmail.com]

panelboard as raceway?

panelboard as raceway?

I know the draw is crude but a recent thread got me thinking about running travelers like this and I thought I would try to get a little clarification on it. As far as I can tell in every cable/raceway I've got equal EMF canceling out. Anyway does this violate any codes?

Thanks all

panel board as raceway, get power from 2 pole disconnect it is extra wire but the out buiding is completly dead when thown. This is my thought take it with a grain:smile: