Circuit identification

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anbm

Senior Member
I think I ran into this with a plan eviewer in past once...

When we prepared panel schedules and showed on our design document, for 120V circuit serving 3 or 4 rooms/space, because we run out of space in panel format, we only type word "Receptacles" for entire circuit decription and so on.

Plan reviewer has reviewed and forced us to spell out what exact what room# the 120V circuit will serve, i.e: Receptacles - Room #101,102,103,104.

Does anyone know what section of code she refered to about above rule for circuit description? I do not think it is 408.4 (circuit directory)
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
408.4 is the best I can find. However, I think that "Receptacles" is far too vague a description. I would assume since you have Room #s 101, 102... this is a commercial setting. Plans usually accompany commercial builds, and rooms are assigned numbers. At the end of the job, the trades submit as-builts and together the plans and as-builts are kept for future reference.

Suppose it was you that had to do a service call in that building, and you found you needed to turn of the power to the receptacles in Room 316. Now imagine standing in front of a set of panels in the electrical room and you see about 150 circuits marked "Receptacles". Which one do you open? Do you start with the first one and work your way down until you find the one you need? Or do you just stick a bent piece of #12 into the recep and short it out? Are either of those methods 'safe'?

Or would a safer method simply be (lacking circuit-tracing equipment) to mark the receptacles for Room 316 as "Receps, Rm 316"?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
I think it is very clear that 408.4 requires a directory to say more than just "receptacles".
(2005 code)408.4 Circuit Directory or Circuit Identification
Every circuit and circuit modification shall be legibly identified as to its clear, evident, and specific purpose or use. The identification shall include sufficient detail to allow each circuit to be distinguished from all others. The identification shall be included in a circuit directory that is located on the face or inside of the panel door in the case of a panelboard, and located at each switch on a switchboard.
 

peter

Senior Member
Location
San Diego
This sounds like a wonderful opportunity for putting a little diagram in there. You know, a little map showing all the rooms and which circuits are where.
~Peter
 
The little diagram thing is a good idea Peter. How many times have you guys labeled the panel schedule with the room number from the blue print and than when back 6 months later to do a service call and the room numbers do not match what is on the schedule.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
This sounds like a wonderful opportunity for putting a little diagram in there. You know, a little map showing all the rooms and which circuits are where.
~Peter


1: We need more duct tape!
2: Why?
1: For the panel directory
2: ?
1: A proposal was accepted ...we have to tape the print to the panel

:D
 

jeremysterling

Senior Member
Location
Austin, TX
I think it is very clear that 408.4 requires a directory to say more than just "receptacles".

I disagree. I believe "receptacles" or "lights" to be specific enough for the purpose of the NEC.

If you think that is inadequate, feel free to write, "upstairs bedroom 5-15R duplex receptacles"

I try to be more specific than "lights" but I do not see the law requiring more.
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ
we make our own panel labels with our company logo and contact info at the top, I have MS publisher and Word that does a great job for this.

I use Excel 97...logo and all included

I am on the cusp of cutting edge
icon14.gif
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
I disagree. I believe "receptacles" or "lights" to be specific enough for the purpose of the NEC.

The code making panel disagree with you.

9-104 Log #1519 NEC-P09
(408-4)

Final Action: Reject

Submitter: David Shapiro, Safety First Electrical Contracting, Consulting, and Safety Education
Recommendation:

Add at end,
"The identifications shall be unique, so as to enable users to differentiate between disconnecting means serving similar loads quickly
and unmistakably".

Substantiation:
The NFPA Inspection Manual says that this is the intent. Intent, however, is not enforceable, and this will be even more true in 2005.

Panel Meeting Action: Reject

Panel Statement:
The current language allows the AHJ to enforce specific information in circuit directories. The new language " quickly and
unmistakably" is subjective and unenforceable. There is no stated hazard that substantiates the need for this change.
Number Eligible to Vote: 11
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 9 Negative: 2

Explanation of Negative:

HARTWELL: I have considerable sympathy for this proposal, having gone through a difficult history of getting installers in my former
jurisdiction to first, even provide circuit directories, and then, having those directories convey useful information. I have seen far too
many panels with directories showing, for example, ten 15A circuits saying "lights and plugs", six circuits labeled "heat" and two or
three marked "kitchen outlets".
The panel statement is partially correct, and the phrase "quickly and unmistakably" could be removed from the proposal very easily.
The rest should stand. The key is the word "unique". Although the Code does allow the enforcement community to insist on what the
proposal requests, express language would produce more consistent enforcement. When I began enforcing useful circuit directories all I
had to work with was 110.22. The 1990 NEC brought the express circuit directory requirement to then 384.13, and compliance improved.
Relocation of the requirement to 408.4 in the 2002 NEC as a stand-alone requirement improved visibility and compliance even more.
This proposal will result in a further improvement in compliance, with a commensurate improvement in safety.

OFFERDAHL: This proposal should be "accepted in principle." The submitter concern about properly marking the circuit directory
could be improved by adding the words to the sentence to read as follows:
"All circuits and circuit modifications shall be legibly identifies as to its clear, evident and specific purpose or use on a circuit
directory."

These additional words will emphasize the importance of circuit directory for the safe operation of an electrical system.
1064
 

celtic

Senior Member
Location
NJ


I put the even numbers at the far RIGHT.
What kind of home-made hack crap is that?

:D


As the directory "might" be considered advertising with the company name,logo, etc on it....I also add my EC Lic #. [NJ requires it on ads]
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
I put the even numbers at the far RIGHT.
What kind of home-made hack crap is that?

Crap that reads left to right, like most normal people read stuff. ;)

As the directory "might" be considered advertising with the company name,logo, etc on it....I also add my EC Lic #. [NJ requires it on ads]

Isn't NJ the state with all the weird rules? :D It's not required here. Yet.
 

480sparky

Senior Member
Location
Iowegia
Hey, now we can't see what kind of breakers are needed for this panel!



J/K. Looks great! I like the phase color marking, too.

It's just not in the photo. The label only covers the area designated for the directory.

And I use brown/orange/yellow for the high-voltage panels.

Whateverschedule.jpg
 
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