CL3R Cable For Undercabinet Lighting?

[8V92TA]

Hey everyone, I was curious if it is legal to use CL3R 12/2 cable for an undercabinet Juno Trac-12 installation? The wiring will be run under the kitchen to a 4' high crawl space where the transformer will be mounted. I know you can't use the older style "zip-cord" or whatever. I do however have a box of this CL3R 12/2 wire. It appears to be very similar to 12/2 NM cable, but has stranded conductors. The outer sheath is just like NM, and the conductors are enclosed in a plastic sheath inside the outer sheath. The internal sheath is like MC cable. This cable is rated to 75?C.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! I am really not wanting to install 12/2 NM for these lights, its just not practical with the solid wire!

Thanks!

 

[stickboy1375]

Hey everyone, I was curious if it is legal to use CL3R 12/2 cable for an undercabinet Juno Trac-12 installation? The wiring will be run under the kitchen to a 4' high crawl space where the transformer will be mounted. I know you can't use the older style "zip-cord" or whatever. I do however have a box of this CL3R 12/2 wire. It appears to be very similar to 12/2 NM cable, but has stranded conductors. The outer sheath is just like NM, and the conductors are enclosed in a plastic sheath inside the outer sheath. The internal sheath is like MC cable. This cable is rated to 75?C.

Any help would be GREATLY appreciated! I am really not wanting to install 12/2 NM for these lights, its just not practical with the solid wire!

Thanks!

I use low voltage wiring... 12-2 usually, not sure if that is cl3R cable..? (landscape lite wire )Never actually read the jacket, but probably should have I did see a install of 18-2 bellwire for low voltage lights once... I told the owner it was not going to work... what were these guys thinking?

 

[8V92TA]

You need to read the jacket on that wire you are using. It probably does not meet the requirements for in-wall or concealed LV wiring. We used to use the 2-conductor stuff too, much like the "Malibu" outdoor wire. Only drawback is that its not rated for in-wall or concealed use, that is, doesn't meet Chapter 3 requirements. However, the CL3R does meet the requirements and is typically used for speaker or other A/V systems. Never used it for LV lighting though, and was curious if this could be a legal and easy alternative to EMT or NM cable.

Any takers? I know this is a hot topic!

 

[stickboy1375]

You need to read the jacket on that wire you are using. It probably does not meet the requirements for in-wall or concealed LV wiring. We used to use the 2-conductor stuff too, much like the "Malibu" outdoor wire. Only drawback is that its not rated for in-wall or concealed use, that is, doesn't meet Chapter 3 requirements. However, the CL3R does meet the requirements and is typically used for speaker or other A/V systems. Never used it for LV lighting though, and was curious if this could be a legal and easy alternative to EMT or NM cable.

Any takers? I know this is a hot topic!

yeah, probably better off not asking... just joking... i'm sure landscape wire is not legal...

 

[mdshunk]

It might be permitted to use CL3R (Class 3, Riser) cable for low voltage lighting if it wasn't for the fact that most low voltage lighting transformers that I've seen say plainly "Class 2" right on them. The NEC does permit cable of a higher rating to be used, but CL3R is lower. Lean more in article 411 and table 11A and 11B in chapter 9 of the NEC.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Art 411 in the 2005 NEC permits the use of other than "Chapter 3" wiring methods, prior editions of the NEC do not permit other than Chapter 3 wiring methods.
The restrictions for using an Art 725 type wiring method is very restrictive, and cannot be liberally used for this type of installation. As Mdshunk has mentioned, you will need to refer to Table 11(B) in Chapter 9. This table takes some education in learning how to read and understand it.

 

[hbiss]

It might be permitted to use CL3R (Class 3, Riser) cable for low voltage lighting if it wasn't for the fact that most low voltage lighting transformers that I've seen say plainly "Class 2" right on them. The NEC does permit cable of a higher rating to be used, but CL3R is lower.

Actually a CL3 wiring method is "higher" than CL2. So if a transformer is a listed Class 2 power source then either CL2 or CL3 wiring can be used.

As Pierre says, unless you are on the '05 code cycle and can apply Art 411 it's really a moot point, you are going to have to use a class 1 wiring method.

Also, all LV transformers and power sources should be labeled as to their listing. Been that way for a number of years and was done to make it easy to know what wiring method is required. If it doesn't say Class 3 or Class 2 you are going to have to assume class 1 wiring.

Don't bother with Table 11(B) in chapter 9 unless you are a manufacturer or have the test equipment to apply it. That table was moved from 725 to the back of the book, I suspect next cycle it will be gone. The manufacturer should have already used this information to determine what to put on the label.

-Hal

 

[8V92TA]

Very imformative answers, guys! Thanks!

My transformer will be showing up this week, Juno model TL553 24-volt, 250 VA. I will definitely check and see what class it is labelled as. Hopefully it is a 2 or 3, and I can use this CL3R wire. If not, then I guess I get to fight 12/2NM cable!

 

[tom baker]

The exception added in the 2005 NEC for the use of "low voltage" wire has a limit of 100 Watts. If more than 100 Watts then you must use a chapter 3 wiring method.
And Art 411 is not a low voltage wiring system. The title is lighting operating at 30 volts or less, not low voltage. It can be low voltage and high amperage...

 

[8V92TA]

Limit of 100W? Can I assume that is per run for each low voltage lighting circuit? There will be four, with the highest at 100W for the longest section of cabinets.

 

[8V92TA]

Any takers?

 

[hbiss]

Limit of 100W?

The supply has a limit of 100W not each run unless a large supply individually OCPs each run to 100W or less.

-Hal

 

[8V92TA]

Bummer. Looks like I may have to use 12-2 NM after all. Crap! I sure wish there some some sort of stranded 2-conductor cable that was rated for this use, at least above 100W of total connected load. Or maybe I just haven't found it yet? Oh well, I will check back periodically.