Clarification in code question

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Dorifto

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[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Q7. I hear that the NEC no longer allows receptacles to be located above a suspended ceiling. Frequently there is the desire to have a receptacle above the ceiling to plug in a ceiling-mounted LCD video projector, or small transformer for security installations. I can't find the NEC rule that prohibits locating receptacles above a suspended ceiling.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A7. Receptacles are permitted above a suspended ceiling, however cords are not permitted to be concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings nor are they permitted to be located above suspended or dropped ceilings [400.8(5)]. For the example in your question, a receptacle would have to be mounted in the ceiling, accessible from below. However, a receptacle above the suspended ceiling might be required or desirable for use for portable equipment and/or tools.

Does placing the cord in conduit (in wall) up to a receptacle location above the suspended ceiling acceptable? I see his a lot on low voltage devices (active hdmi or preamp speakers) and not sure if it is acceptable or code violation.[/FONT]
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Dorifto said:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Q7. I hear that the NEC no longer allows receptacles to be located above a suspended ceiling. Frequently there is the desire to have a receptacle above the ceiling to plug in a ceiling-mounted LCD video projector, or small transformer for security installations. I can't find the NEC rule that prohibits locating receptacles above a suspended ceiling.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]A7. Receptacles are permitted above a suspended ceiling, however cords are not permitted to be concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings nor are they permitted to be located above suspended or dropped ceilings [400.8(5)]. For the example in your question, a receptacle would have to be mounted in the ceiling, accessible from below. However, a receptacle above the suspended ceiling might be required or desirable for use for portable equipment and/or tools.

Does placing the cord in conduit (in wall) up to a receptacle location above the suspended ceiling acceptable? I see his a lot on low voltage devices (active hdmi or preamp speakers) and not sure if it is acceptable or code violation.[/FONT]
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Click to expand...

It is subtle and slightly controversial:
The NEC does not prohibit putting a receptacle above a suspended ceiling.
But it does prohibit plugging the end of a cord (arguably other than a factory assembled UL listed power cord in 2014 but any flexible cord in 2017) into that receptacle.
 
Dorifto said:

Does placing the cord in conduit (in wall) up to a receptacle location above the suspended ceiling acceptable? I see his a lot on low voltage devices (active hdmi or preamp speakers) and not sure if it is acceptable or code violation.
Click to expand...

Generally not permitted.

400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permittedin this Code
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infinity said:
Generally not permitted.
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400.8 Uses Not Permitted.
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permittedin this Code
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But in nearly all cases that is not being used as a raceway, just a sleeve, and mostly for looks, physical protection isn't ordinarily an issue.

This sort of leaves us with trying to determine the intent of why it may not be allowed in there.
 
roger said:
Being that it is inside the wall how is it for looks?

Roger
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What I am talking about isn't inside the wall I don't know what you are asking about.

What I am talking about still penetrates the suspended ceiling which still remains questionable on code compliance, but it is not a "raceway" per NEC either. "Raceways" used per NEC need to be continuous from box to box, cabinet, etc., if not they are a protective sleeve or whatever you wish to call them.
 
Dorifto said:
Does placing the cord in conduit (in wall) up to a receptacle location above the suspended ceiling acceptable? I see his a lot on low voltage devices (active hdmi or preamp speakers) and not sure if it is acceptable or code violation.
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You're more or less describing using a flush mount box and data stub up to run an extension cord through, and no, that is not acceptable.


JAP>
 
kwired said:
What I am talking about isn't inside the wall I don't know what you are asking about.
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You need to read the OP again, the OP states the conduit will be "in wall" so looks wouldn't have been a problem, however there are a couple reasons it would be a violation.

Dorifto said:


Does placing the cord in conduit (in wall) up to a receptacle location above the suspended ceiling acceptable? I see his a lot on low voltage devices (active hdmi or preamp speakers) and not sure if it is acceptable or code violation.
Click to expand...

With that said, the reasons would be as Infinity posted and

(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located
above suspended or dropped ceilings

Roger
 
GoldDigger said:
But it does prohibit plugging the end of a cord (arguably other than a factory assembled UL listed power cord in 2014 but any flexible cord in 2017) into that receptacle.
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GD can you clarify this? It sounds like you are saying that 2017 has new language that clarifies that even a power cord supplied with a product is not allowed, is that correct? I still don't have my 2017 yet, bad kitty.
 
electrofelon said:
GD can you clarify this? It sounds like you are saying that 2017 has new language that clarifies that even a power cord supplied with a product is not allowed, is that correct? I still don't have my 2017 yet, bad kitty.
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Yes. [2017] explicitly added language mentioning supplied power cords along with field made flexible cord sections to remove the potential ambiguity that Mike Holt (among others) pointed out.
 
This is the wording from the 2017:

400.12 Uses Not Permitted. Unless specifically permitted in400.10, flexible cables, flexible cord sets, and power supplycords shall not be used for the following:
(1) As a substitute for the fixed wiring of a structure
(2) Where run through holes in walls, structural ceilings,suspended ceilings, dropped ceilings, or floors
(3) Where run through doorways, windows, or similar openings
(4) Where attached to building surfaces
Exception to (4): Flexible cord and flexible cable shall be permitted to be attached to building surfaces in accordance with 368.56(B)
(5) Where concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or locatedabove suspended or dropped ceilings
Exception to (5): Flexible cord and flexible cable shall be permitted ifcontained within an enclosure for use in Other Spaces Used for Environmental Air as permitted by 300.22(C)(3).
(6) Where installed in raceways, except as otherwise permit‐ted in this Code
(7) Where subject to physical damage
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What about a wall-wart where there is zero 120v cordage?

What about low-voltage wiring like CAT5, phone, speaker, etc?
 
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