Clearance - Residential service adjacent to water main

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Jons

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Please reference attached pics. I am trying to determine if I have an NEC code compliant condition:
Electrical service equipment was installed before plumber routed water main to apartment and house plumbing (water lines split and headed in two directions). Went through NEC article 110 and did not see if there is any required clearance adjacent to or above plumbed water lines in residential application. Lines run from main/meter up on left side of panel and makes 90 degree right turn (one line at this point heading towards side of house it feeds) and passes over service panel. Apologize for 90 degree out pics. 2" piece of pipe to left of panel a remnant, so please disregard it.

H20_Service_1.jpgH20_Service_2.jpg
 
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Pipes adjacent to a panel are not an issue. Pipes that run over a panel are an issue. You mentioned something about this, but I don't see it in either photo. NEC 110.26(E) prohibits pipes or other foreign systems from being in the "dedicated equipment space." That phrase means the area directly above or below the panel.
 
Clearance - Residential service adjacent to water main

Yes, my thinking was the pipes running above the service panel would be an issue. I did not have a pic showing the existing water pipe route. Now I'm wondering if the pipe could reside in a framed insulated ceiling envelope, however it would be best to have it exposed to the basement heat due to the extreme temps outside during the course of the winter....on the order of -25 below often. If enclosed in framed chase with sheetrock underneath it, would this qualify as protecting the service panel in the case of pipe leak or burst..I would think not. Are there any other options one may think of other than re-routing the pipe underneath the service panel?
 
Jons said:
Yes, my thinking was the pipes running above the service panel would be an issue. I did not have a pic showing the existing water pipe route. Now I'm wondering if the pipe could reside in a framed insulated ceiling envelope, however it would be best to have it exposed to the basement heat due to the extreme temps outside during the course of the winter....on the order of -25 below often. If enclosed in framed chase with sheetrock underneath it, would this qualify as protecting the service panel in the case of pipe leak or burst..I would think not. Are there any other options one may think of other than re-routing the pipe underneath the service panel?
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Pipe cannot be in dedicated space, including under the panel.

dedicated-space1.jpg
 
Clearance - Residential service adjacent to water main

Does this only apply to equipment in excess of 200A installs? Up to 200A and this residential case, exempt from the dedicated space rule? So another question based on the previous post: If water pipe above service equipment is passing above panel in excess of 6 1/2 feet from grade, then there isn't a violation of the NEC? Also, why is the purple pipe permitted if its above suspended ceiling which for instance would fail (say its made of composite tiles) ...not to mention non-liquid tight grid.
 
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Jons said:
Does this only apply to equipment in excess of 200A installs? Up to 200A and this residential case, exempt from the dedicated space rule?
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There is no such exemption.
Jons said:
If water pipe above service equipment is passing above panel in excess of 6 1/2 feet from grade, then there isn't a violation of the NEC?.
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Not true. The 6-1/2 feet is the required head room for a person standing in front of the panel to work on it.
Jons said:
Also, why is the purple pipe permitted if it’s above suspended ceiling . . . .
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Look at the side view image. The purple pipe is not directly above the panel. It is far enough away from the wall as to be above the working space, not within the dedicated equipment space.

You can have a pipe that is directly above the panel under either of two circumstances:

  1. If the pipe is at least 6 feet higher than the top of the panel, and there is a drip shield between the pipe and the panel, or
  2. If there is a structural ceiling that separates the pipe from the panel. A suspended ceiling would not be sufficient for this purpose.

 
Clearance - Residential service adjacent to water main

"If there is a structural ceiling that separates the pipe from the panel. A suspended ceiling would not be sufficient for this purpose."

So, if pipe runs through a TGI, then TGI gets finished with sheetrock, then all good? I wouldn't understand this either, as sheetrock would eventually saturate and eventually fail IMHO. As I mentioned in previous post, I was trying to avoid encasing this pipe in an envelope if at all possible. Re-route is ugly unless under panel was permitted, but apparently it's not, so this will create issues to have to deal with. The whole layout of these mechanicals is a mess right now. Looking like more rework on the horizon for sure.

For the record, I was not the person who installed the panel
 
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I don't know what TGI is. But sheetrock is not structural any more than suspended tiles would be.

One possible way out (depending on the exact routing of the pipe) would be to remount the panel, this time on some type of frame that puts the panel further away from the wall than the pipe (i.e., so that the pipe is no longer "directly above" the panel). The photo shows no conduits yet attached to the panel, so this should not be a hard thing to do.
 
charlie b said:
I don't know what TGI is. But sheetrock is not structural any more than suspended tiles would be.

One possible way out (depending on the exact routing of the pipe) would be to remount the panel, this time on some type of frame that puts the panel further away from the wall than the pipe (i.e., so that the pipe is no longer "directly above" the panel). The photo shows no conduits yet attached to the panel, so this should not be a hard thing to do.
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In my opinion, the plumber created the violation, he can fix it. Or someone can pay the OP to implement your solution. What definitely should not happen is that the OP fix this for free, unless there are a set of plans and he didn't put the panel where the plans called for.
 
Clearance - Residential service adjacent to water main

gadfly56 said:
In my opinion, the plumber created the violation, he can fix it. Or someone can pay the OP to implement your solution. What definitely should not happen is that the OP fix this for free, unless there are a set of plans and he didn't put the panel where the plans called for.
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The feeling I have about making the plumber fix his violation is I do not want him working this project moving forward. Other incidents of concern have turned up on this job (associated with his install) last week, so I would care not to let him work on the place anymore. Perhaps I should contract another plumber and send the original plumber the bill and take it from there. I did not pay this plumber who violated the NEC in full, so obviously I still have the option to hold back $$, which of course I'm doing at the moment.
 
Jons said:
The feeling I have about making the plumber fix his violation is I do not want him working this project moving forward. Other incidents of concern have turned up on this job (associated with his install) last week, so I would care not to let him work on the place anymore. Perhaps I should contract another plumber and send the original plumber the bill and take it from there. I did not pay this plumber who violated the NEC in full, so obviously I still have the option to hold back $$, which of course I'm doing at the moment.
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Ahhh, I did not realize you were the owner/GC. I thought you were the electrician. My bad.
 
charlie b said:
I don't know what TGI is. But sheetrock is not structural any more than suspended tiles would be.

One possible way out (depending on the exact routing of the pipe) would be to remount the panel, this time on some type of frame that puts the panel further away from the wall than the pipe (i.e., so that the pipe is no longer "directly above" the panel). The photo shows no conduits yet attached to the panel, so this should not be a hard thing to do.
Click to expand...

Look here. TJI by the way.

https://lpcorp.com/products/framing/i-joists/
 
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