electricmanscott
Senior Member
- Location
- Boston, MA
- Occupation
- Massachusetts Master Electrician, one man show.
Re: close closet
Today I agree with Augie.
close closet
- Thread starter websparky
- Start date
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mnassar
Member
- Location
- Goodyrear, AZ
Re: close closet
read the code no panel in closet or bath.
read the code no panel in closet or bath.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Re: close closet
Augie, I like that: intent of the code. Least we become like the Pharisee. Who were so overly concerned about keeping the law that they enforced their own sticker interpretations, and misunderstood the intent of the law.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: close closet
I guess I'll get in line with the Pharisees, because I can't see a partition from the "other parts of the closet" preventing clothes from being piled up to the panel.
I guess I'll get in line with the Pharisees, because I can't see a partition from the "other parts of the closet" preventing clothes from being piled up to the panel.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Re: close closet
Georege
A 1700 sq ft house we did just over a year ago. They wanted eve outlets for Christmas lights added. No problem. Panel is in the garage with spare conduit running to attic. The pile of laundry and other combustibles in font of the panel would make you sick. Bet she keeps it that way.
Georege
A 1700 sq ft house we did just over a year ago. They wanted eve outlets for Christmas lights added. No problem. Panel is in the garage with spare conduit running to attic. The pile of laundry and other combustibles in font of the panel would make you sick. Bet she keeps it that way.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Re: close closet
I agree with that term in general, and not so much in this thread. I have upgraded several closet panel to outdoor panels.
Clarification:Originally posted by Minuteman:
Augie, I like that: intent of the code. Least we become like the Pharisee. Who were so overly concerned about keeping the law that they enforced their own sticker interpretations, and misunderstood the intent of the law.
I agree with that term in general, and not so much in this thread. I have upgraded several closet panel to outdoor panels.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: close closet
All I'm saying is, you're walking a fine line when you install a panel in a closet, put in a partition or whatever, and walk away. (You is the all-encompassing "you" not anyone in particular.)
The one example they give in the code is "clothes closets." I install my panels in garages, I can understand your example, Michael. We walk a fairly fine line in doing so, but at least I can't point to the code and see "close closets and garages"
Show me a closet you can square dance in, I'll show you a spot in the same house to install your panel thats not in a closet.
All I'm saying is, you're walking a fine line when you install a panel in a closet, put in a partition or whatever, and walk away. (You is the all-encompassing "you" not anyone in particular.)
The one example they give in the code is "clothes closets." I install my panels in garages, I can understand your example, Michael. We walk a fairly fine line in doing so, but at least I can't point to the code and see "close closets and garages"
Show me a closet you can square dance in, I'll show you a spot in the same house to install your panel thats not in a closet.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: close closet
I guess I'll get in line with the Pharisees, because I can't see a partition from the "other parts of the closet" preventing clothes from being piled up to the panel.
I guess I'll get in line with the Pharisees, because I can't see a partition from the "other parts of the closet" preventing clothes from being piled up to the panel.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: close closet
I`ve had more trouble getting to panels in garages than anywhere else.Boxes,Bikes,storage stuff piled in front of a panel in garages than anywhere else.It amazes me that someone will cal in a service request for a tripping breaker and it is like climbing a mountain just to get to the panel.
I`ve had more trouble getting to panels in garages than anywhere else.Boxes,Bikes,storage stuff piled in front of a panel in garages than anywhere else.It amazes me that someone will cal in a service request for a tripping breaker and it is like climbing a mountain just to get to the panel.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: close closet
I know the feeling. I can't get to half the panels in garages on rough inspections during construction let alone in a lived-in home.
I once had a servce call to a home and upon entering the garage to get to the panel. I noticed the cover was off and nowhere to be seen. There were a couple of tools sitting in the enclosure and a hammer and small garden hoe hanging from branch circuit conductors. I saw all this after I removed the golf bag leaning up against the exposed breakers.
I know the feeling. I can't get to half the panels in garages on rough inspections during construction let alone in a lived-in home.
I once had a servce call to a home and upon entering the garage to get to the panel. I noticed the cover was off and nowhere to be seen. There were a couple of tools sitting in the enclosure and a hammer and small garden hoe hanging from branch circuit conductors. I saw all this after I removed the golf bag leaning up against the exposed breakers.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: close closet
It seems that people pile everything up against the panel on purpose.I know it is done without thought but I have seen more flamable substances in front of a panel in a garage than any closet ever had.Lawn mowers gas cans etc.
Closets are usualy clearer,I wonder where this code article got its start.
It seems that people pile everything up against the panel on purpose.I know it is done without thought but I have seen more flamable substances in front of a panel in a garage than any closet ever had.Lawn mowers gas cans etc.
Closets are usualy clearer,I wonder where this code article got its start.
Minuteman
Senior Member
- Location
- The Sooner Nation
Re: close closet
{break out your score card folks, I have agreed with both positions on this thread}
And I can't argue with that either!
{break out your score card folks, I have agreed with both positions on this thread}
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2023
- Occupation
- Hospital Master Electrician
Re: close closet
Like a duck to water.
Like a duck to water.
Re: close closet
This is just another example of poor code text. The code does not specifically prohibit overcurrent devices from being located in clothes closets. The code prohibits overcurrent devices from being located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material. It then gives clothes closets as an example of where this condition may occur.
A panel partitioned off from the remainder of a storage area is safe if the required working spaces are maintained and are not used for storage. Reference Section 110.26(B).
I wonder if screwing a panel to wood studs is in the vicinity of easily ignitable material?
This is just another example of poor code text. The code does not specifically prohibit overcurrent devices from being located in clothes closets. The code prohibits overcurrent devices from being located in the vicinity of easily ignitable material. It then gives clothes closets as an example of where this condition may occur.
A panel partitioned off from the remainder of a storage area is safe if the required working spaces are maintained and are not used for storage. Reference Section 110.26(B).
I wonder if screwing a panel to wood studs is in the vicinity of easily ignitable material?
- Location
- Lockport, IL
- Occupation
- Semi-Retired Electrical Engineer
Re: close closet
This concept does not violate any rules about working clearance. It is not possible to work on energized equipment, until you remove the door.
I have to agree with this. Here's why:
Let's take that logic one step further. Once you close the panel door, the overcurrent devices are now separated from the rest of the storage space. They are not in the vicinity of easily ignitable materials, since there is a metal plate that separates breaker from sweater.
This concept does not violate any rules about working clearance. It is not possible to work on energized equipment, until you remove the door.
Have you ever tried to light a wood stud with a match? You have to have a significant flame already going, in order to ignite a wood stud.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: close closet
If I am not mistaken wasn`t it in the nec that a panelboard a.k.a.load center can`t be located within a closet.96 cycle I think it was.Where did it change to source of easily ignightable substances.
If I am not mistaken wasn`t it in the nec that a panelboard a.k.a.load center can`t be located within a closet.96 cycle I think it was.Where did it change to source of easily ignightable substances.
Re: close closet
When I said partitioned from the remainder of the storage space, I was refering to construction. A panel could be installed in a large walk-in closet without being in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, i.e., away from the hangar rods and shelves.
On the other hand, in the basement example, no concern is given to the types of materials that may be stored in that area.
If I have a large storage area, what makes it a clothes closet? Is it because some clothes are stored in that room. My kids bedroom would meet the definition of a clothes closet in that case. Does that mean I don't have to have receptacles and AFCI protection?
I don't like code rules that require inspectors to speculate on the intended use of a space within a type of occupancy.
For example, limiting the AFCI requirements to bedrooms. What differenciates a bedroom from a study? The answer-the intended use of the space. Is it up to the inspector to speculate how an occupant intends to use the space within their dwelling? I thought that was Frank Lloyd Wrights job.
When I said partitioned from the remainder of the storage space, I was refering to construction. A panel could be installed in a large walk-in closet without being in the vicinity of easily ignitable material, i.e., away from the hangar rods and shelves.
On the other hand, in the basement example, no concern is given to the types of materials that may be stored in that area.
If I have a large storage area, what makes it a clothes closet? Is it because some clothes are stored in that room. My kids bedroom would meet the definition of a clothes closet in that case. Does that mean I don't have to have receptacles and AFCI protection?
I don't like code rules that require inspectors to speculate on the intended use of a space within a type of occupancy.
For example, limiting the AFCI requirements to bedrooms. What differenciates a bedroom from a study? The answer-the intended use of the space. Is it up to the inspector to speculate how an occupant intends to use the space within their dwelling? I thought that was Frank Lloyd Wrights job.
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