Cloth Covering

[iggy2]

we have a client who has been ordered by the electrical inspector (verbally, letter requested but none yet) to replace (2) feeders from one building to two other buildings. The reason is that the cloth jacket on the conductors in the panel is damaged. Not the insulation - just the cloth jacket. This is old (1950s?) (3) 250 kcmil copper in 2-1/2" pipe, through the foundation wall, underground into the crawl space at two other apartment buildings about 30 and 50 feet away.

Am I correct that the cloth jacket is purely for physical protection, and once the conductors are installed, the cloth jacket is of no use?

Rather than rip out the existing conductors, I am suggesting they propose to the inspector, as a compromise, to sleeve the damaged portion of the existing conductors in the panel with heat shrink tubing. This is for public housing, so money is not growing on the trees here...

 

[K8MHZ]

we have a client who has been ordered by the electrical inspector (verbally, letter requested but none yet) to replace (2) feeders from one building to two other buildings. The reason is that the cloth jacket on the conductors in the panel is damaged. Not the insulation - just the cloth jacket. This is old (1950s?) (3) 250 kcmil copper in 2-1/2" pipe, through the foundation wall, underground into the crawl space at two other apartment buildings about 30 and 50 feet away.

Am I correct that the cloth jacket is purely for physical protection, and once the conductors are installed, the cloth jacket is of no use?

Rather than rip out the existing conductors, I am suggesting they propose to the inspector, as a compromise, to sleeve the damaged portion of the existing conductors in the panel with heat shrink tubing. This is for public housing, so money is not growing on the trees here...

I don't see this as an NEC issue. I am pretty sure the inspector can't find anything in the NEC to back up his request.

 

[cowboyjwc]

And shrink tube is not really the way to go either, you would be better just wrapping it with tape. We've had this discussion before and I believe that it's 3 wraps of 3m tape will give you the protection you need. Since it's for bigger wire you could just buy the 2" tape or however wide it is.

 

[iggy2]

And shrink tube is not really the way to go either, you would be better just wrapping it with tape. We've had this discussion before and I believe that it's 3 wraps of 3m tape will give you the protection you need.

I'm concerned that tape will not be able to be wrapped as far onto the conductors as they get close to the conduit. I thought HS tube would be able to be slid on further than tape can be wrapped, maybe even into the conduit for an inch or two.

Second, if only the fabric is damaged, not the insulation, what would be the point of the tape?

 

[cowboyjwc]

I'm concerned that tape will not be able to be wrapped as far onto the conductors as they get close to the conduit. I thought HS tube would be able to be slid on further than tape can be wrapped, maybe even into the conduit for an inch or two.

Second, if only the fabric is damaged, not the insulation, what would be the point of the tape?

Let me go back and clarify that I do not agree with the inspector, but HS, I believe, doesn't have any electrical rating, where as the tape does. Now if he's saying that you just need to make the cover whole again, then maybe the HS is the way to go, but if he's looking for insulation protection the I would go with the tape.

 

[K8MHZ]

Let me go back and clarify that I do not agree with the inspector, but HS, I believe, doesn't have any electrical rating, where as the tape does. Now if he's saying that you just need to make the cover whole again, then maybe the HS is the way to go, but if he's looking for insulation protection the I would go with the tape.

HS most certainly has an insulation rating if it is Mil spec. 400 volts per mil, minimum.



http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-SPECS/MIL-SPECS-MIL-I/MIL-I-23053-2C_12499/

Here is some from Raychem:

http://raychem.te.com/CableProtection.asp

The question is, 'does the EI have the authority force a repair?'

Can an electrical inspector force someone to repair a switch? Show me the code. What about a burned out lamp or bulb? Show me the code. Replace a non-working fan? What about a working fan that is showing it's age, but still doing what it is supposed to do?

If the conductors were installed to code at the time, the inspector has no right whatsoever to force a repair or replacement based upon the NEC.

So, if he is enforcing something other than the NEC, you should be told exactly what is being enforced.

 

[cowboyjwc]

I don't disagree with most of what you said, but I do wish that people would get off the idea the EI's only inspect to the NEC. The UAC used to say that that you had to maintain the buildings service equipment in a safe and sanitary manner, it then went on to say that in order to determine compliance with this section, the building official may cause a structure to be reinspected.

Now I say used to say, it could now be in the building maintenance code or the building code or in Article 80 of the NEC (if it's adopted).

 

[K8MHZ]

I don't disagree with most of what you said, but I do wish that people would get off the idea the EI's only inspect to the NEC. The UAC used to say that that you had to maintain the buildings service equipment in a safe and sanitary manner, it then went on to say that in order to determine compliance with this section, the building official may cause a structure to be reinspected.

Now I say used to say, it could now be in the building maintenance code or the building code or in Article 80 of the NEC (if it's adopted).

Very true, but whatever they are enforcing, the person getting gigged should be made aware of the specific rule and code that is being enforced.

I don't know of any codes that say conductors have to be replaced because of a damaged cloth covering and that is why I brought up the issue.

I don't mind being corrected, but it requires some specificity.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Very true, but whatever they are enforcing, the person getting gigged should be made aware of the specific rule and code that is being enforced.

I don't know of any codes that say conductors have to be replaced because of a damaged cloth covering and that is why I brought up the issue.

I don't mind being corrected, but it requires some specificity.

Now I did say in my second post, that I did not agree with the inspector.:happyno:

 

[mike7330]

are you going to pull the wires off the breaker/lugs then heat shrink or tape the wires? I would leave the old wires alone! Megg the wires. I think you are only asking for trouble. Just my 2cents. But it would be a nice job and a little scrap if you do replace

 

[iggy2]

The question is, 'does the EI have the authority force a repair?

I'm fairly certain that it is in the IBC (adopted here in MA) that the building Owner is responsible to "maintain" the building(s). Does that give the electrical inspector any authority? Probably not. I suspect only the code official could issue such an order, but not the 'inspector of wires" we have here in MA.

But again, i do not think the fabric serves any purpose anymore, so repairing/covering it seems pointless. Digging, laying new conduit and pulling new conductors then seems pointless x 1,000.

I have an e-mail and pix into Okonite to see if they agree about the function of the cloth.