code book

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bphgravity

Senior Member
Location
Florida
Re: code book

Originally posted by ryan_618:
In my experience as an inspector, I have found that, typically, the only tradespeople that own a code book are electricians.
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I believe there is a good reason for this. Electrical code is the only construction code that is specificaly designed to limit the inherent dangers of the installations we are trying to do.

If a plumber connects his pipes or drains wrong, the water will not flow properly or the sinks wont drain. But a safety hazard is not created.

Electricity is an oddity in that there are ten ways to install systems wrong for every one correct way.

You can actually connect all the metallic parts and frames of equipment to the ungrounded conductors and the "hot" side of equipment to ground and electricty will flow. Unfortunately, a definite hazrd is created!

The key is to not do what it takes to make electricity work, but to do whatever it takes to ensure that it stops working when a hazard arises. This is what the code book tells us how to do. :)
 
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jro

Senior Member
Re: code book

I would have to agree with Ryan and Brian, code books are as common as a pair of Klien's in an electricians bag of tricks, I had my first code book about six months into the trade, bought it after I put my Craftsman tools in my garage and bought a brand new set of Klien tools, bags and all, that was 21 1/2 years ago, and I buy a code book each time it is updated. How any electrician can go without one is beyond me. :D
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: code book

In the past 50 years the training program in the trade has reversed itself. I started with emphasis on the technical, mechanical, and engineering components of the trade. Learning these subjects made the NEC irelevant.

The NEC code books had a price of $1.00 when I started. Even then, this was cheap. Many wholesale suppliers gave them away to customers.

I know a few, who can quote almost the entire code book but will cross thread a light bulb.

I never worked under the NEC until HUD made it mandatory for jurisdictions to adopt the code, if they wanted Federal money. The price of the book went up immediately.

I am sorry if I offend anyone, it is not polite for me to critize the NEC on a NEC forum. My intent is; the NEC can be extremely beneficial to the trade if it makes a lot of changes.
 
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pierre

Senior Member
Location
Westchester County, New York
Re: code book

Hello Bennie


I will start off by saying, do not take what I am going to ask you as offensive, in reading some of your posts I get the distinct feeling you do not agree with portions of the NEC.

With your years of 'experience' in this great industry (I think you also agree it is a great industry) and all the changes you must have seen, at this point why do you not take a stance and enter some code proposals? If you have already done so then please disregard this. I like some of what you have to say, and sometimes what you have to say goes right over my head. I like these forums because they present the ideas from guys across the country and are a great learning tool.

The NEC is the basis for 'SAFETY' in our industry and in my opinion sets our industry apart from all other industries, and I will agree that in some respects could use some changes here and there.
As this industry grows (I am sure the changes have been immense since you started) the need for training (not just in code) is ever more important and the NEC should be mandatory for anyone in the industry.
Being more positive about it will help the young people who come into this industry to understand it is not a perfect document (is there such a thing), but is important as a daily tool to use.

My father use to tell me, do not complain about something unless you are willing to do something about it.

We all need the positive help you and others here pass along, lets keep it positive.

Pierre
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: code book

I am sorry my statements are judged to be negative. I consider constructive criticism as being positive in advancing technology.

I have attended many code classes in the past 50 years. One time I asked four questions, on code issues, to four different self proclaimed experts, and I received four different interpretations. All four were wrong. All quoted the same section but each put their own spin on the intent.

I have also read many technical manuals on specific procedures, mostly Federal Specifications and Standards. Nothing is left out that requires further information or clarification.

Don't tell me I am not involved and doing nothing. I am not pounding the code book either. Shall I pledge allegiance to the NEC, and swear to tell the truth while holding it in my hand.
 
roger

roger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Fl
Occupation
Retired Electrician
Re: code book

Bennie, I hope I don't make you mad, but I don't think alot here know you were an inspector. ;)

Roger
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: code book

Roger: No, I am not mad. I just get tired of being informed that if I if am not writing the code then shut up.

The dissidents of England, who founded this country, did not write English law or religion. The founding of America was a positive move.
 
iwire

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Re: code book

I think it is safe to say the grounding and bonding is above average in his jurisdiction. :D

Bennie keep on doing what you always do, make us think about the reasons we do things, not just because the NEC says so. :cool:
 
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racraft

Senior Member
Re: code book

If you do not properly vent a drain, sewer gas will back up into the house. This will eventually kill you if it reaches high enough concentrations.

Also, many plumbers are also called upon to do gas piping or vent work for either their jobs (e.g. water heaters) or for other jobs (e.g. furnaces). If this work is done wrong you have the potential for a gas leak or for carbon monoxide poisoning.
 
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russellroberts

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Re: code book

To add to racraft's post, a closed water supply system,created by either a backflow preventer(check valve) at the water meter,or a PRV(pressure reducing valve) if not supplied with a properly sized expansion tank can and has resulted in WH explosions.

Also,leaky fittings cause moisture in walls and other areas,which can cause mold problems which have caused some folks to become very ill.

Russell
 
ryan_618

ryan_618

Senior Member
Location
Salt Lake City, Utah
Re: code book

Cross-contamination I would bet has killed more people than electricity. I respect electricity very much and believe that on a building by building basis it is more dangerous than plumbing. On the big picture however, I would say that plumbing, hands down, has killed more people than electricity. Dissentary, cholera, typhoid have all been HUGE epidemics throughout the history of the world due to cross contamination of plumbing systems. I realize this is probably the wrong forum for this, but plumbing really can be a major issue.
 
don_resqcapt19

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Re: code book

ryan,
You are correct. A single plumbing cross connection has the possibility of killing or injuring (making them sick) far more people than any electrical mistake. This is one of the reasons that Illinois requires all plumbers to have a state plumbing license. There is no state electrical license in Illinois.
Don
 
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bennie

Esteemed Member
Re: code book

Polio was caused by plumbers doing too good of a job with sanitation systems. They catch it both ways.
Talk about no respect :D
 
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