Code compliance.

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You are right. I was not aware. I guess it never came up with me because usually panels are surface mounted around here.



What the heck is a cut out box. I read the definition :?
 
when a GC pressures me to close something that I am not ready to close I tell him to go ahead and close it and I will just use my BFH to cut holes if I need to get anything else in there and no We will not pay for the repair of the wall Oh and by the way the inspection has to pass before the wall is closed.

The inspectors I deal with want to know if ALL the circuit conductors are in the panel before they will pass a wall that has a panel. some even count them and look at the panel schedule on the print They also need to see how and where the MC or AC is strapped. EMT coming out of the panel Has to have a closed box on the end of suitable size for the conduit. (something about unused opening to be closed)

If the inspector has not seen it and passed it or can not see it it will have to be reopened The inspectors are on the EC's side not the GC's unless the EC is totally wrong
 
marinesgt0411 said:
when a GC pressures me to close something that I am not ready to close I tell him to go ahead and close it and I will just use my BFH to cut holes if I need to get anything else in there and no We will not pay for the repair of the wall Oh and by the way the inspection has to pass before the wall is closed.

The inspectors I deal with want to know if ALL the circuit conductors are in the panel before they will pass a wall that has a panel. some even count them and look at the panel schedule on the print They also need to see how and where the MC or AC is strapped. EMT coming out of the panel Has to have a closed box on the end of suitable size for the conduit. (something about unused opening to be closed)

If the inspector has not seen it and passed it or can not see it it will have to be reopened The inspectors are on the EC's side not the GC's unless the EC is totally wrong
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I don't know about you but when i use mu BFH i charge them for my time. :x
 
If your using romex why not use 12-3wg. You will only have to count for 2 conductors per cable on the derating. Using 2 different phases the neutral carries the unbalance current so the neutral you don't have to count. You might have to run 10-3wg but if it up to me it would make more sense to run a couple of 1" pipes up to the attic to a large j-box and add circuits as needed. That way if you do run into derating problems you could use lets stay #10 thhn. A lot of different ways to do it.
Bye now,
Jim
 
Well, I trust people's math, so count me as the first among the "too lazy to verify" camp. In this 2" EMT, 12's are only worth 11 amps. If any of these circuits are for general purpose receptacle use, 210.52 has no use for a 10 amp receptacle circuit. 240.4(B) won't allow you to kick it up to a 15 amp breaker, either.

All things being equal, given the description in the original post, I would have drilled 1.25" holes in the top plate of the wall, and planned on fishing romex. EMT wouldn't have occured to me, with the mental picture I have of the installation.

A two-foot fish with access from above in (what I presume is) an uninsulated wall would be pretty straightforward. Any chance of simply leaving the EMT alone (for a rainy day) and just using the surrounding knockouts for that?
 
Would not a large j-box between the panel and plate will solve the derating issue and let you keep the #12?

Hide the cover with a picture...
 
I would raise the panel up a few inches to get the nipple down to 24" and install a j-box on the end of the PVC. Now your 45% derating issues will go away.
 
looks to me like everyone including some inspectors is missing the point in 321.5 c which I had not realized would preclude using a pipe due to the fact that you need to secure the romex. how about a 2" 2 screw romex clamp turned backwards into the box attached flimsily to an FA on the top side and a bushing at the pipe end?
 
Is there some reason why several 3/4" or 1" EMT stubs can't be fished down the wall into attic j-boxes without opening the wall?

Take multi-wires out of the panel and split'em off in the jboxes to the existing 12-2's to cut down on the current carrying conductors.
 
tonyi said:
Is there some reason why several 3/4" or 1" EMT stubs can't be fished down the wall into attic j-boxes without opening the wall?
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Only one that I can think of: attics are usually above the room the panel is in. :lol:

Take multi-wires out of the panel and split'em off in the jboxes to the existing 12-2's to cut down on the current carrying conductors.
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You're still gonna be faced with limiting the quantity of conductors and length issues.

Besides, the only thing this will reduce is the number of neutrals you need to terminate. You could join them in the panel just as easily. You still have to watch the phasing.
 
LarryFine said:
Besides, the only thing this will reduce is the number of neutrals you need to terminate. You could join them in the panel just as easily. You still have to watch the phasing.
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Larry if we had eleven two wire circuits we would have 22 current carrying conductors.

If we go with multiwire (assuming a 240/120 supply) we can cut the CCCs down to 12 from 22.

That results in less derating, 50% vs 45%.
 
We still need to derate for the pipe(s) in the wall, but if a multiwire split happens close to where the pipes emerge from the plate, then ambient derating could be omitted for the drops through the wall. Then each of the 12-2's (now individual in the attic) would be OK with the ambient.
 
George wrote:
"All things being equal, given the description in the original post, I would have drilled 1.25" holes in the top plate of the wall, and planned on fishing romex"


Lets not forget about draft stopping or fireblocking, depending on the fire assembly rating of the wall.
 
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