Code Compliant or Esthetics?

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Jim W in Tampa said:
fair enough but what would the time frame be to get it and does it cost anything.
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I have seen them issued in a matter of days; but you know the faster you need it, the longer it takes. I don't know about costs. The owner, not just the permit holder, must be a participant in the filing process as well as sign the variance application, which means they are acknowledging their acceptance of the risk associated with the variance.
 
jim dungar said:
I have seen them issued in a matter of days; but you know the faster you need it, the longer it takes. I don't know about costs. The owner, not just the permit holder, must be a participant in the filing process as well as sign the variance application, which means they are acknowledging their acceptance of the risk associated with the variance.
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Would hope they disclose this at sale too.They are assuming a lot of liability in doing this.Should a guest get hurt they cant go back on the city,county or EC.I can see where in a huge kitchen with lots of counter space them not needing this space.
 
IMO a variance would not apply here, I cannot grant someone a variance that would allow less than the required minimum or delete code sections, that is not the purpose of a variation
 
sorry, i worded that wrong, a variance would not apply in this case, because there is no reason why that plug cannot be installed, because I don't want it is not a reason, it would never be granted here
 
iwire said:
Can anyone provide any proof that installing a receptacle on an island is more dangerous then not installing it?.....
I thought not.:smile:
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Not proof perhaps,.. but it has been mentioned in this thread that some one's sister pulled a cord and got disfigured (scarred) ,.. and these folks had a similar experience,... the powers that be adopt all kinds of codes , some of which cost a billion dollars a year with little proof,.....

" proof ,.. proof,.. we don't need no stinking proof":smile:


2-194 Log #1748 NEC-P02 Final Action: Reject
(210.52(C)(2))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Ronald Martin, Martha Martin, Citizens Input
Recommendation: Revise as follows:
In private residences the homeowner may elect not to install receptacles in
the center island if the following conditions are met.
● A minimum of 12 linier feet of countertop that is not part of the center
island (need not be continuous).
● The above countertop shall be within 4 ft of the island.
● Homeowner makes provisions for future installation of receptacles in
center island by installing a junction box within the island cabinet for that
purpose.
Substantiation: Receptacles installed on center islands pose a safety hazard
whereas appliances have been knocked down due to the cord being snagged
by people passing close by in crowded conditions. In addition, a toddler just
learning to walk could grab hold of the cord, lose their balance, and pull the
appliance down on top of them. This in fact did happen in our old home.
Receptacles installed on center islands where the sink divides the center
island and there is 12 in. or more counter top between the sink and the edge of
counter top also poses a safety hazard as small slow cookers fit nicely in that
space and could be knocked into the sink or on the floor.
If adequate adjacent counter space and receptacles are provided, there is no
reason to place receptacles in the island.
Furthermore, fine cabinetry with drawers and raised panel doors make
installation and aesthetics less than satisfactory.
Summary
I believe the function of the NEC should be to protect people from hazards
that they may not be aware of. Having receptacles in a center island may
produce more hazards than they eliminate. There needs to be room for choices.
Our personal freedoms are continuously being eroded. Government regulations
are making attempts to idiot proof our lives. Citizens need to be responsible
for their own actions concerning safety in their homes. I believe that common
sense should prevail over bureaucracy mandates.
We spent a lot of money designing our kitchen and made provisions for
plenty of receptacles and do not want them in our center island. Please consider
this change for future requests so that others don?t have to go through what we
are going through. Thank you for considering these changes.
Panel Meeting Action: Reject
Panel Statement: The panel has debated the issue of where to mount
receptacles on islands over numerous code cycles. The current wording of the
NEC provides a reasonable set of rules to address practical mounting based on
the construction of the countertop and cabinets.
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 12
____________________________________________________________
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​
​

 
Busy thread today!

Some additional info about my particular case, in response to new posts, but in no particular order:

I got a flat price for wiring this remodel, so the cost for installing an island receptacle was already covered.

It's above an easy crawl space where I already have two J-boxes I could come out of, so it's no more work to do it "later."

There was about 20 feet of open and useable counter space in this kitchen, three SA circuits, and about 12 receptacles.

If the inspection department ever billed me for a re-inspection because I appealed a decision, they'd be unhappy.

The original failure (for a couple of other things, too*), the challenge, and the passing are all part of the records.


*The other things that failed, and then passed by chief electrical inspector, were:

Use of shallow Wiremold boxes as under-cabinet J-boxes for under-cabinet puck lights' 18ga. wire to join 14/2NM.

No GFCI protection for desk in far corner of the kitchen, which the first inspector insisted was a kitchen countertop.
 
Things would probably be alot easier if the trade was not dumbed down to the point where we need a book to walk us through every little thing because are too stupid to make a decision based on common sense, right Roger.

Boy would I love to spend some time with some of you guys out in the field. :rolleyes:
 
electricmanscott said:
Things would probably be alot easier if the trade was not dumbed down to the point where we need a book to walk us through every little thing because are too stupid to make a decision based on common sense, right Roger.

Boy would I love to spend some time with some of you guys out in the field. :rolleyes:
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Scott I see no commonsense at all in leaving an kitchen island without any power. To me that is the direct opposite of commonsense.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
I only know of one way to get out this.Simply tell them not to bolt the island down to the floor.If need be call it something else or store it in the garage till after the CO.The inspector is off the hook and so are you if its not there.Personally i think they are a hazard but nec makes the rules.Just where do we think we are ?America ? Hi Hitler.
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Jim, which side are you on today?
 
I think Ronald and Martha said it a bit better but ,...alas,.. it is tough titty for them.

From the above ROP
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There needs to be room for choices.
Our personal freedoms are continuously being eroded. Government regulations
are making attempts to idiot proof our lives. Citizens need to be responsible
for their own actions concerning safety in their homes. I believe that common
sense should prevail over bureaucracy mandates.
We spent a lot of money designing our kitchen and made provisions for
plenty of receptacles and do not want them in our center island.
Click to expand...
 
Interesting discussion on this topic. It goes back to what I've posted here before about how important communication is . I always talk to the HO about what is required, to the GC, to the plumbers, etc. It ends up saving us all a lot of head aches. I probably have an advantage here in that I'm in a small town and have usualy worked with all these guys before. One GC that I've done a lot of work with has joked that he's ready to go try the Masters test because he's heard so much about the blankety blank code from me!:smile:
 
M. D. said:
Not proof perhaps,.. but it has been mentioned in this thread that some one's sister pulled a cord and got disfigured (scarred) ,..
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Yes, because there was no receptacle where needed.

HO grabs extension cord and plugs pot into receptacle that makes it so the cord drapes across the walkway. Toddler in walker happens by and grabs cord, pulling boiling hot coffee down on him or her.
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BTW, my sister, age two at the time, was burned by hot coffee in such a manner in 1962 and still has scars from her feet to her waist to prove it.
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How dare they!!! :rolleyes:


There needs to be room for choices.
Our personal freedoms are continuously being eroded. Government regulations
are making attempts to idiot proof our lives. Citizens need to be responsible
for their own actions concerning safety in their homes. I believe that common
sense should prevail over bureaucracy mandates.
We spent a lot of money designing our kitchen and made provisions for
plenty of receptacles and do not want them in our center island.
Click to expand...
 
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