Code Compliant or Esthetics?

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I wasn't involved woth the planning at all. I was hired as a sub by the GC halfway into the construction. The surface was a high-dollar man-made material, the homeowner didn't want the surface penetrated in any way.

I told the GC and homeowner the rules, and that it was up to them to deal with the inspector. I wasn't present for the discussions that followed. I was informed that, as a table, the receptacle was allowed to be omitted.

The island actually had a square base and corner legs. With whom should I have argued and insisted that I install a receptacle the homeowner didn't want, the GC didn't want, and the inspector permitted to leave off?
 
LarryFine said:
The island actually had a square base and corner legs. With whom should I have argued and insisted that I install a receptacle the homeowner didn't want, the GC didn't want, and the inspector permitted to leave off?
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From that description it sounds like an "island" and would require one per the NEC. No matter what anyone else thought or wanted.
 
chevyx92 said:
From that description it sounds like an "island" and would require one per the NEC. No matter what anyone else thought or wanted.
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A wise man once said....

electricmanscott said:
Can you (anyone) honestly say that if you are standing there with the customer in front of their fancy schmancy new island debating installation of a receptacle, that you will cut that hole no matter how adamant they are about you not doing it?

I HIGHLY doubt it.
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I only know of one way to get out this.Simply tell them not to bolt the island down to the floor.If need be call it something else or store it in the garage till after the CO.The inspector is off the hook and so are you if its not there.Personally i think they are a hazard but nec makes the rules.Just where do we think we are ?America ? Hi Hitler.
 
the bottom line is, it does not matter if it is a high end kitchen or standard kitchen, the NEC does not care, the receptacle is required, if somebody decides to run an extension cord from the island to the countertop receptacle, and somebody got hurt, you or the inspector would not have a leg to stand on
 
mpd said:
the bottom line is, it does not matter if it is a high end kitchen or standard kitchen, the NEC does not care, the receptacle is required, if somebody decides to run an extension cord from the island to the countertop receptacle, and somebody got hurt, you or the inspector would not have a leg to stand on
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If a cord is hanging over the side plugged into that required receptacle you are screwed too. :rolleyes:


How would YOU answer the question I asked twice??
 
electricmanscott said:
If a cord is hanging over the side plugged into that required receptacle you are screwed too. :rolleyes:


How would YOU answer the question I asked twice??
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Exactly.Now if there was no receptacle they likely would have used the appliance on the counter that had a receptacle.
 
mpd said:
electricmanscott

what are you asking?
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This is what Scott is asking:

Can you (anyone) honestly say that if you are standing there with the customer in front of their fancy schmancy new island debating installation of a receptacle, that you will cut that hole no matter how adamant they are about you not doing it?
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Can you (anyone) honestly say that if you are standing there with the customer in front of their fancy schmancy new island debating installation of a receptacle, that you will cut that hole no matter how adamant they are about you not doing it?
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If that is the question I would tell them I am not calling for an inspection until they decide where the receptacle can be located.
No I would not cut into the fancy schmancy new island without the customer eventually saying OK.
 
I'm absolutely not debating that the NEC requires a receptacle, nor that this stationary table was an island. To do so would be lunacy. The code says what it says. Charlie's Rule, right?

In my case, the inspector okayed it, because his boss did, who also agreed that a built-in desk in the far corner of the kitchen was not a countertop, and didn't require GFCI receptacles.


Added: What I am saying is that this was not a case of imminent danger caused by not having a receptacle. It passed inspection, the GC got paid, and I got paid.
 
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what you are saying larry, is your job did not meet the minimum code requirement and it passed, does not make it right
 
Further, we've often had discussions about inspectors failing installations that are compliant, and a fairly large portion of the responses say something to the effect of "Go ahead and do what he wants." or "I pick my battles, and this one wasn't that important." or "Even if you win the appeal, he'll always give you a hard time in the future."

Failing something incorrectly is just as wrong as passing something incorrectly. If there was no ambiguity in the codes, and no flexibility in the interpretations, there would never be any difference in opinions about code compliance. Why should a job's passing or failing ever depend on who inspects it? It shouldn't, but it often does.
 
mpd said:
what you are saying larry, is your job did not meet the minimum code requirement and it passed, does not make it right
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No argument. But it won't burn the house down.

In fact, one could argue that the presence of every additional device in a house increases the risk of fire or electrocution ever-so-slightly.

What would you have installed?
 
LarryFine said:
No argument. But it won't burn the house down.
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I have wired 3 house now that were code compliant and they all burned to the ground. Dang my luck is bad.:grin: The first one was from a candle, the other a wood stove and this last one they think from a battery charger in the garage.

I get to wire 2 of the 3 again-- heck of a way to have job security. :grin:
 
Dennis Alwon said:
I have wired 3 house now that were code compliant and they all burned to the ground.
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Okay, I should have said it differently. :D

I get to wire 2 of the 3 again-- heck of a way to have job security. :grin:
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Like an arsonist fireman? :rolleyes:
 
SEO said:
Has anybody had any issues with receptacles on islands or peninsular countertop spaces dealing with homeowners that are adamant about not having them?
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If the homeowner doesn't want one and it's a very fancy elaborate island then I personally have no problem not doing it if the inspector is ok with it also. To me it's not one of those things that's really that important or dangerous to not have. You guys talking about them tripping over an extension cord and it coming back to you or the inspector are crazy in my opinion. You have better odds winning the lotto than getting bit from that.
 
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