Code Interpretation

[SuburbanSparks]

Hi All,

I wanted your opinion on this amendment and how you read this. They way I read it is in the exceptions #1 and 2 that arc faults are not required if its in conduit and its an extension of the circuit, primarily for remodeling work. The inspector argues its for Dorms. But it reads to me at least that dwelling units, i.e a house or a 2 flat, 3 flat etc... would also count.

Here's the amendment.

Article 210.12 Arc-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection. (Revised to read as follows)

Arc- fault circuit-interrupter protection shall be provided as required in 210.12(A), (B), (C) and (D). The arc-fault circuit interrupter shall be installed in a readily accessible location.

(A)

Dwelling Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets and devices installed in dwelling units shall be protected by a listed arc-fault circuit interrupter, combination-type, installed to provide protection of the branch circuit.

(B)

Dormitory Units. All 120-volt, single phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets and devices installed in dormitory units shall be protected as described in 210.12(A).

(C)

Guest Rooms, Guest Suites and Patient Sleeping Rooms in Nursing Homes and Limited-Care Facilities. All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets and devices installed in guest suites, guest rooms of hotels and motels and patient sleeping rooms in nursing homes and limited-care facilities shall be protected as described in 210.12(A).

(D)

Branch Circuit Extensions or Modifications - Dwelling Units, Dormitory Units, and Guest Rooms and Guest Suites. In any of the areas specified in 210.12(A), (B) or (C), where branch- circuit wiring is modified, replaced or extended, the branch-circuit shall be protected by one of the following:

(1)

A listed combination-type AFCI located at the origin or the branch circuit.

(2)

A listed outlet branch-circuit type AFCI located at the first outlet of the existing branch circuit.

Exception No. 1 to 210.12(A), (B), and (C): It shall be permitted to omit AFCI protection for that portion of the branch circuit enclosed in rigid metal conduit (RMC), flexible metal conduit (FMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), electrical metal tubing (EMT), or Type MI cable sheath meeting the requirements of 250.118 along with metal outlet and junction boxes.

Exception No. 2 to 210.12(D): It shall be permitted to omit AFCI protection for that portion of the branch circuit installed in rigid metal conduit (RMC), flexible metal conduit (FMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), electrical metal tubing (EMT), or steel sheathed cable, Type AC, Type MC, or Type MI cable sheath, meeting the requirements of 250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes.

Exception No. 3 to 210.12(A), (B), (C) and (D): Where an individual branch circuit to a fire alarm system is installed in accordance with 760.41(B) or 760.121(B) is installed in rigid metal conduit (RMC), intermediate metal conduit (IMC), electrical metal tubing (EMT), or Type MI Cable sheath meeting the requirements of 250.118, with metal outlet and junction boxes, AFCI protection shall be permitted to be omitted.

 

[augie47]

I interpret it the same as you.

 

[James L]

I see exception #1 relating to new installation in those areas of

I see exception #2 relating to D which is modifications in those areas of A, B, C

For what it's worth, exception #2 adds MC

 

[SuburbanSparks]

Yeah, that's what I thought. These arc faults are still just not ready for prime time. They trip from disposals, vacuums, I've even seen some lights cause them to trip. I'm telling homeowners to call their village when they trip. We had another inspector in a different suburb tell the homeowner. I have to see the breakers installed, I know they nuisance trip so you can have them removed after I leave. I think these have a purpose for say a romex home (great for critters that gnaw on the wiring but if its in conduit I don't see the point). Another off the wall village told us if you do any service changes like a 100 to a 200 or even a panel swap he wants all arc faults installed. That's not only a huge added expense to the owner its not really code imo. Some of the villages are removing the arc fault requirement due to the complaints they are getting.

 

[jimport]

Sounds like if the panel does not have afci breakers available, the afci protection is allowed to be added with an afci device mounted outside of the panel. The portion of wiring between panel and device is exempt if in metal conduit.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Clearly the exceptions are under (D) which includes dwelling, dorms, guest rooms and guest suites. So how is the inspector seeing this as only for dorms?

 

[GoldDigger]

Clearly the exceptions are under (D) which includes dwelling, dorms, guest rooms and guest suites. So how is the inspector seeing this as only for dorms?

The exceptions are physically "under" D, but that does not restrict them to applying only to D.
Within each exception is states which paragraphs it applies to:

#1 applies to A, B, C and D.​

#2 applies to D only.​

#3 applies to A, B, C and D.​

 

[Dennis Alwon]

The exceptions are physically "under" D, but that does not restrict them to applying only to D.
Within each exception is states which paragraphs it applies to:

#1 applies to A, B, C and D.​

#2 applies to D only.​

#3 applies to A, B, C and D.​

Yeah you are right it doesn't apply to D-- I read that incorrectly but it doesn't change anything as it applies all the locations listed under A, B, C. D except #2 and that doesn't say anything about dorm rooms only

 

[ramsy]

I'm telling homeowners to call their village when they trip. ..I know they nuisance trip so you can have them removed after I leave.

Many contractors omit AFCI's, and when missing from plain sight no court can force insurance to pay out claims for the construction defect.

If a General contractor's unskilled laborer, Romex ripper, or panel flipper can't get something to work, they illegally remove it after inspection.

They don't care about putting property owners, who detrimentally rely of them, on the wrong side of the law.

 

[mtnelect]

Many contractors omit AFCI's, and when missing from plain sight no court can force insurance to pay out claims for the construction defect.

If a General contractor's unskilled laborer, Romex ripper, or panel flipper can't get something to work, they illegally remove it after inspection.

They don't care about putting property owners, who detrimentally rely of them, on the wrong side of the law.

The only time they have to file a permit is when it requires utility reconnection ... otherwise 95% of residential work is without a permit in California.

 

[tortuga]

Is there ever a case in Chicago where there is a non-metallic wiring method? Seems like exception No1 would exempt most new work in Chicago from AFCI's.

The only time they have to file a permit is when it requires utility reconnection

Must depend where you are, A guy I know whom works in LA county says he needs a electrical permit to do just about anything other than replace a light bulb.

 

[mtnelect]

This is an example of what HVAC contractors have to deal with.

 

[tortuga]

This is an example of what HVAC contractors have to deal with.

Thats quite the read. I am going to nickname you mr pdf as your always posting PDF's.

The only electrical or HVAC work exempt from a permit in LA county is
Title 27, Article 82, an electrical permit shall not be required for the following:

Minor repair work, such as the replacement of lamps, switches, receptacles devices, sockets, and the like, or the connection of portable motor and appliances to suitable receptacles which have been permanently installed.
The wiring for temporary theater, motion picture or television stage sets.
Electrical wiring, devices, appliances, apparatus, or equipment operating at less than 25 volts and not capable of supplying more than 50 watts of energy.
Low-energy power, control, and signal circuits that are not an integral part of an appliance and in which the power is limited from a source having a rated output of not more than 30 volts and 1000 volt-amperes.
Temporary decorative lighting.
The installation of temporary wiring for testing or experimental purposes within suitable facilities.
Replacement of over-current devices of the same type and same rating.
Portable generators, portable motors, appliances, tools, power outlets, and other portable equipment connected by means of a cord or cable having an attachment plug.
Private telephone, intercom, sound and communication systems; provided, however, that the above system(s) do not exceed the value as indicated in (3) and (4) of this section.


[HVAC]
Title 29, Section 111.1, a mechanical permit shall not be required for the following:

Any portable heating appliance.
Any portable ventilating equipment.
Any portable cooling unit.
Any steam, hot, or chilled water piping within any heating or cooling equipment regulated by the Mechanical Code.
Replacement of any component part or assembly of an appliance which does not alter its original approval and complies with applicable requirements of the Mechanical Code.
Any portable evaporative cooler.
Any refrigerating equipment which is a part of equipment for which a permit has been issued pursuant to the requirements of the Mechanical Code.
Any unit refrigerating system.

 

[ramsy]

Thats quite the read. I am going to nickname you mr pdf as your always posting PDF's.

The only electrical or HVAC work exempt from a permit in LA county is
Title 27, Article 82, an electrical permit shall not be required for the following:

Even if jurisdictions adopted Article 82, or CA B&P 7090, or CEC §89.108.4, minor repairs exempt from permits per are not exempt from fire-code violations that void property insurance.

Insurance policy contracts follow local law, including amendments that remove AFCI's, but are written to transcend errors & omissions by AHJ's.

Contractors that pass inspections, and prevent open permits, can still void property insurance policy if their construction defects are buried, or missed by inspection, and later discovered by claims investigator, fire marshal, or forensic investigations looking for insurance fraud (restaurants).

So property owners that fail to get a certificate of additionally insured from each contractor's GL policy, has little recourse from un-disclosed defects.

 

[mtnelect]

Even if jurisdictions adopted Article 82, or CA B&P 7090, or CEC §89.108.4, minor repairs exempt from permits per are not exempt from fire-code violations that void property insurance.

Insurance policy contracts follow local law, including amendments that remove AFCI's, but are written to transcend errors & omissions by AHJ's.

Contractors that pass inspections, and prevent open permits, can still void property insurance policy if their construction defects are buried, or missed by inspection, and later discovered by claims investigator, fire marshal, or forensic investigations looking for insurance fraud (restaurants).

So property owners that fail to get a certificate of additionally insured from each contractor's GL policy, has little recourse from un-disclosed defects.

Residential property owners that do a remodel without a permit, are out of luck when it comes time to sell the property. When the property is in escrow, they do a permit search. If the remodel doesn't show up. It isn't included in the property appraisal. Also, they are required to sign an affidavit revealing all the information is true on their property.

 

[ramsy]

Residential property owners that do a remodel without a permit, are out of luck when it comes time to sell the property. When the property is in escrow, they do a permit search. If the remodel doesn't show up. It isn't included in the property appraisal. Also, they are required to sign an affidavit revealing all the information is true on their property.

I believe you describe "Transfer on Disclosure" (TDS), per CA Civ.Code 1102. Perhaps a hand full of US States remain without similar requirements during real estate transactions.

When owners make repairs or DIY remodels, and construction defects are not disclosed by TDS, the seller is liable when property insurance inevitably refuses casualty claims with open permits & other defects.

Unfortunately, even if owners are motivated to comply with this law, the TDS can't possible catch all defects, and few banks much less real estate agents enforce inspections before sale, so there is no residential market for TDS inspection reports during property sales. The TDS or affidavit is signed on the honor system. As you said, remodel defects are not likely disclosed, and 95% are exhibiting defects.

Instead, buyers have traditionally relied on hiring a Home Inspector to identify defects, and negotiate repair costs with sellers. Some home inspectors do catch foundation, termite, or water damage, but won't be masters of all, much less electrical, like insurance investigators.

However that home-inspection tradition came to a sudden halt recently, as cash offers without home inspections are out bidding reasonable people in the real estate market.

I agree 95% of existing residential work will pass title insurance, and be re-insured to new buyers, but while property insurance policy collects insurance premiums from everyone, they apply a different standard before paying claims that are denied for several reasons.

 

[SuburbanSparks]

Conduit homes are typically in the nearby counties. If you go about 60 miles then things start going romex. There is still a lot of knob and tube in these old homes in Chicago and burbs, so imagine trying to make some of these neutrals work. Only so much one can do with it if your not doing a complete gut job.

 

[tortuga]

Conduit homes are typically in the nearby counties. If you go about 60 miles then things start going romex. There is still a lot of knob and tube in these old homes in Chicago and burbs, so imagine trying to make some of these neutrals work. Only so much one can do with it if your not doing a complete gut job.

Interesting, so this code were interpreting from is a state NEC amendment? And then there are different city / county codes or something?

 

[SuburbanSparks]

No, this is a local amendment, every village wants to put their 2 cents in what they think is right and wrong and that is really a detriment to us. I could drive 5 miles in any direction and what may be allowed in one village is not allowed in another. We even have a village that says you can't have a subpanel, so if you have a 200 amp service they want you to upgrade to a 400, or a 100 to a 200. Other places, can't use any PVC in a slab, or you have to switch to metal whenever there is a 90 in the pipe. I could go on with the craziness but I don't want to ruin my Monday. haha