Code question about GFCI protection

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mbike01

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The code book says that you can replace an ungrounded type receptacle with a GFCI receptacle. I recently had an inspection and an intresting point came up... when you extend an ungrounded branch circuit to an area i.e. wet bar that specifically requires a GFCI outlet the code does not say anything about this "ungrounded GFCI" working correctly. when the area specifically calls for a GFCI does this circuit HAVE to be grounded in order for the GFCI to work properly?
 
mbike01 said:
when the area specifically calls for a GFCI does this circuit HAVE to be grounded in order for the GFCI to work properly?
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No it does not. A GFCI senses an imbalance between the Hot and neutral of the GFCI and will trip when when this happens and kill power to the outlet.

Just remember that if you extend the circuit for other recepticles and you want to protect them be SURE that you come off the load side of the GFCI, this will protect them down stream. Also put a sticker on the outlets that say 'GFCI protected, no equipment ground' (even though they get rubbed off). :)
 
Testing a GFCI is done by shorting the grounded conductor to the grounding conductor. But the GFCI works whether or not there is a grounding conductor or not. If there is a short to ground there will be a grounding conductor it just wont come in the form of a copper wire.
 
A GFCI does not require a grounding conductor to work properly. It opens when it detects a difference in current flow between neutral and hot. :)
 
georgestolz said:
How's that for service!?! :D :D
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Everyone must have just hit there computers after dinner...LOL...mbike01 had both posts answered - by multiple parties - in record time :D
 
I recently had an inspection and an intresting point came up... when you extend an ungrounded branch circuit to an area i.e. wet bar
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There are no code provisions that permit you to extend an existing ungrounded circuit to a new location and install a receptacle, GFCI protected or not.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
There are no code provisions that permit you to extend an existing ungrounded circuit to a new location and install a receptacle, GFCI protected or not.
Don
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Please correct me if im wrong in interperting your post, even though the NEC may not 'specify' anything about extending an existing ungrounded circuit that does NOT mean you can not do it. If so please tell me what article makes it a violation. :)
 
brother said:
Please correct me if im wrong in interperting your post, even though the NEC may not 'specify' anything about extending an existing ungrounded circuit that does NOT mean you can not do it. If so please tell me what article makes it a violation. :)
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I say that you can and that the NEC makes provisions for this

250.130 (C) Nongrounding Receptacle Replacement or Branch Circuit Extensions The equipment grounding conductor of a grounding-type receptacle or a branch-circuit extension shall be permitted to be connected to any of the following:
(1) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode system as described in 250.50
(2) Any accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor
(3) The equipment grounding terminal bar within the enclosure where the branch circuit for the receptacle or branch circuit originates
(4) For grounded systems, the grounded service conductor within the service equipment enclosure
(5) For ungrounded systems, the grounding terminal bar within the service equipment enclosure
 
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Mike,
You are correct, if you provide an EGC per the section you cited. The original post is talking about extending a circuit without an EGC and installing a GFCI receptacle. There is no code provision that permits a new receptacle to be installed on a circuit that does not have an EGC. 406.3 requires the use of grounding type receptacles with an EGC. There are no exceptions.
Don
 
don_resqcapt19 said:
Mike,
You are correct, if you provide an EGC per the section you cited. The original post is talking about extending a circuit without an EGC and installing a GFCI receptacle. There is no code provision that permits a new receptacle to be installed on a circuit that does not have an EGC. 406.3 requires the use of grounding type receptacles with an EGC. There are no exceptions.
Don
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And I agree with your statement
 
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