LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Bonding plastic pipe.
Code violation 10 awg wire in 1/2?
- Thread starter Eddy Current
- Start date
- Status
Eddy Current
Senior Member
Well its both table 2 is the non conductive and table 3 is the conductive wires. What i think they are doing is separating the wires, hot wires on one table and neutral and grounds on another. There is also another table that shows what size bonding wire to use.
DARUSA
Senior Member
- Location
- New York City
Why 2 separate tables ? This means that you will run separate your neutral and grounds from your ungrounded wires?
Conductor fill doesn't reconize ground ,neutral or hot wires as you call it before !!!
I'm lose here!!!
glene77is
Senior Member
- Location
- Memphis, TN
Roger,
See what you started ?
That should be "non_CONDUCTING" wire, maybe.
Of course, you know that.
Wonder how many extra posts that will elicit? {^,^}
Imagine Dave going back to his Class, and repeating this discussion, HA!
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I believe that
I'm fairly certain those 10 people have nothing to do with any of the installation at this site.
Table 4 actually allows all conductors in a raceway to be installed in the raceway and gives us the dimensions of the raceway. I would guess it would be used most of the time.
Table 5 gives us dimensions of the conductors to be used in raceways listed in table 4.
I have not found any dimensions anyplace for conductors to be used in tables 2 or 3. Let me know if anyone finds them.
Roger,
See what you started ?
That should be "non_CONDUCTING" wire, maybe.
Of course, you know that.
Wonder how many extra posts that will elicit? {^,^}
Imagine Dave going back to his Class, and repeating this discussion, HA!
:grin:
Roger
Eddy Current
Senior Member
They might have had something to do with the paper that has these tables though. I don't have a scanner or anything so im going to try to take a picture of these tables they gave us and post them here.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
They probably authored the tables 2 and 3 you mentioned that do not exist in the NEC.
Looking in the front matter of the 2008 NEC CMP#8 is responsible for chapter 9 tables 1-4.
Although there are more than 10 members plus alternates listed as CMP#8 members there certainly is not 10 members represented by the same organization. I don't think there are even 2 of them represented by the same organizantion, was not going to take the time to verify this but seems very likely.
Eddy Current
Senior Member
I may have exaggerated with 10 but there is definitely more than 2.
Eddy Current
Senior Member
The picture came out to blurry because of my cheap camera.
The table goes like this i just listed the 3 basic conduit sizes but it goes up to 4 inch
Table 2
Number of Control Circuit Conductors in Conduit (Essentially non current carrying)
Size AWG----1/2----3/4----1
16 ------------12-----22-----36
14 ------------9------16------27
12 ------------6------12------19
The table goes like this i just listed the 3 basic conduit sizes but it goes up to 4 inch
Table 2
Number of Control Circuit Conductors in Conduit (Essentially non current carrying)
Size AWG----1/2----3/4----1
16 ------------12-----22-----36
14 ------------9------16------27
12 ------------6------12------19
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I think that is the key, this is addressing "Control Conductors" and #10 is not normally used for controls
Roger
Eddy Current
Senior Member
Thats a good point, but we weren't doing any wiring for controls we were running power to the saw. It was in the same box as the control wiring if that makes a difference.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Since we don't have a copy of the original we don't know what is there for certain.
The information provided says 'control conductors' but does not mention actual conductor type such as THHN, THWN, TW, THW, XHHW, TFN, TFFN. 'Control conductors' is more of a description of the use of the conductor than it is a description of the type of insulation used.
From what I can see I am guessing it is someone's own chart for their own use and is not part of the NEC or even published by NFPA. I have seen some charts published by other parties designed for in the field use that are titled something like 'maximum number of conductors installed in a raceway - for reasonable pulling'.
These charts are not NEC rules but take NEC plus other considerations in making the chart.
I recall working with a piece of 8 TW recently and noticing that the overall diameter looked a little more like #4 THWN. Ch 9 table 5 says it should have been smaller than a 6 THWN but it sure looked bigger than that.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
I did not go back and read through the thread, I do remember the OP suggesting that there were several code making members working where he does, or is working at and find that hard to believe. I do recall him suggesting conduit fill based on a table that does not exist and has not for at least 25 years in the NEC.
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