Colored GEC and two wire stove feed

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mark32

mark32

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Currently in NJ
Hey Now,

Last week I helped a contractor friend upgrade a service and after his helper ran the GEC he was instructed to tape it green as it exited the house and entered the main disconnect outside. I didn't say anything but I thought only equipment grounds were to be green, not the grounding electrode conductor(s). Also, as I was trimming out the new panel the boss happened to be standing behind me as I grabbed the bare conductor on the stove feed, an old two wire romex. Without much thought I attempted to place it under the neutral bar but he said to put it on the ground bar. After some thought I realized that neither place would be code compliant since this is a sub panel. The only option I can see for this application would be to replace the cable as there are no provisions for breakers in the main disconnect/meter enclosure. I didn't say anything about this either as he's been doing this much longer than I have and perhaps the inspector wouldn't notice it. Am I misinformed on either case?
 
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On the stove issue: you are correct, the cable has to be replaced.

The bare conductor in NM was never permitted to be used as both the equipment ground _and_ the circuit grounded conductor. The only time a bare ground/neutral was permitted in this situation is if you have type SE cable.

The combined equipment ground and circuit grounded conductor is only permitted from the main panel, not a subpanel. (There is an alternate code interpretation where an _insulated_ conductor could serve as ground/neutral from a sub-panel; search the forum for discussions on this point, they are long and heated and shouldn't be repeated :)

-Jon
 
Look at 250.140 for properly grounding of an existing range. The grounding wire must be INSULATED if it is romex. If it is the uninsulated conductor of SE cable it must originate in the service panel, not a sub-panel. In either case the wire is a NEUTRAL (Grounded) conductor and should be connected to the neutral bar, not the ground bar (unless it is main service where they are the same). It looks like this installation has some major problems.

Grounding conductor installation is covered in 250.119. I do not know of any distinction between Equipment grounds and grounding electrode conductors as far as identification is concerned. They are both grounding conductors and should be identified as such.
 
I for one don't believe that the GEC has to be colored green
250.62...."The conductor shall be solid or stranded, insulated, covered or bare".
I don't see colored green in the requirements.
Just a opinion.

How about the bonding jumper for the (metal) plumbing , does it have to be colored green?
steve
 
A couple of years ago, I was given special permission to not replace a pair of SE cables that fed kitchen appliances, when doing a T/S installation (which rendered the main panel a sub-panel).

The construction of the house and breezeway between the garage (where the panel was) and house made cable replacement virtually impossible.

The solution was to tape the bare conductor in the panel with white tape and land them on the neutral bus, and not the added EGC bus.

Your concern is correct: this is a case of a neutral serving as an EGC, and not the other way around.
 
Thank you Jon and haskindm,

Now that you mention it the cable in question was SE, not romex as I incorrectly stated, but in this case I don't think it matters.

haskindm, I mentioned the coloring of the GEC because in my grounding workbook by Tom Henry, on page 123 he states that "An insulated grounding electrode conductor should NOT be green in color. The color green is for equipment grounding conductors per 250.119". Thus the reason I questioned the green tape being applied to the GEC.
 
If not green or bare, what color would the grounding electrode conductor be? Does Tom give a code reference that specifies the color for the GEC? I don't believe there is one unless I am missing something. In this case I think Tom is mistaken.
 
Hello haskindm,

I am no expert when it comes to GEC's or anything for that matter. Tom Henry only listed 250.119 as a reference where as it says that an insulated equipment ground shall be green or green with yellow stripes. Likewise, as Steve (Hillbilly) pointed out, 250.62 says nothing about the GEC being green.

The GEC in question was a copper number 4 thhn/thwn (200 amp service) black in color and attached to the underground copper water pipe and used bare stranded number 6 for the ground rod. Another contractor I worked for, years ago, ran number 2 aluminum to the water pipe, with black insulation, and used number 6 thhn/thwn for the ground rod. I know some guys run bare to the water pipe, or other grounding electrodes, but I suspect just as many use black insulated conductors as well.
 
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I agree, green is reserved for the EGC only.

With the exception of white, gray, green, and green with yellows stripes, the GEC can be any other color.

I'm not saying I agree that it should be any other color, but that is the way it is as far as the NEC is concerned.

Roger
 
Is there a code reference that allows a GEC to be black? Can a GEC be bare? Can a EGC be bare? Why is it important to differentiate between the EGC and GEC? I believe they are both allowed to be bare, so it would be impossible to differentiate between them. If that is so, why can't they both be green?
 
haskindm said:
Is there a code reference that allows a GEC to be black?
Click to expand...
The better question would be, "Is there a code reference that prohibits the GEC from being black or any other color besides White, Gray, Green, or Green with Yellow stripes?" the answer would be No

haskindm said:
Can a GEC be bare? Can a EGC be bare?
Click to expand...

Yes and Yes

haskindm said:
Why is it important to differentiate between the EGC and GEC?
Click to expand...

Because they perform different functions, but I personally don't know why the NEC doesn't specifically allow the GEC to be identified with Green

haskindm said:
I believe they are both allowed to be bare, so it would be impossible to differentiate between them. If that is so, why can't they both be green?
Click to expand...

I agree and I don't know. :)

Roger
 
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