Commercial cannabis cultivation load calculations.

[kwired]

I think you're being a little hard on snake oil. At least snake oil had alcohol in it. With these magical boxes they are offering a product that should not even be in existence and when pressed for a return they are extremely reluctant to take them back.

There are other companies pushing similar product for use in homes, offices, or any other application. Bottom line is if you are not paying a penalty for poor power factor they usually will not save you much at all. If they happen to be oversized enough they could even increase your usage, as there is some natural resistive component involved in their operation, which does still consume real wattage.

 

[chazbolin]

Any specialties, though similar design, to other lighting are not produced in the same quantities therefore you can expect them to come with a higher price tag.

That is true if in fact the lamps are designed for specialty applications. The reality of the HID lamps that are offered to the commercial grower is that, with the exception of the price, there are no significant differences. If you were to compare spectral distribution graphs on a standard 1000 watt MH or HPS lamp for a high bay application with the same grow lamp the spectral emissions are near identical. The characteristics of halides and sodium do not change with a relabeled box.

To give you a sense of perspective here is a 250 watt metal halide lamp box that is sold for aquarium lighting. In saltwater is common to see actinic levels or extremely blue between 5 -20K kelvin ratings. What you will notice by the box they (the Chinese) screwed up and show actually more red as the Kelvin ratings go up. I pointed this out to the store owner and they could care less. That $20 lamp sells for $88.00 at their store and they continue to sell it to this day.

 

[kwired]

That is true if in fact the lamps are designed for specialty applications. The reality of the HID lamps that are offered to the commercial grower is that, with the exception of the price, there are no significant differences. If you were to compare spectral distribution graphs on a standard 1000 watt MH or HPS lamp for a high bay application with the same grow lamp the spectral emissions are near identical. The characteristics of halides and sodium do not change with a relabeled box.

To give you a sense of perspective here is a 250 watt metal halide lamp box that is sold for aquarium lighting. In saltwater is common to see actinic levels or extremely blue between 5 -20K kelvin ratings. What you will notice by the box they (the Chinese) screwed up and show actually more red as the Kelvin ratings go up. I pointed this out to the store owner and they could care less. That $20 lamp sells for $88.00 at their store and they continue to sell it to this day.

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I kind of think the grower is the one that is losing by not figuring out this information on their own. If they are really good horticulturist's they probably know their stuff, and don't rely on their suppliers to tell them what they need, as that will always favor the suppliers pockets first. It is that way in pretty much all industries.

I ran into similar thing with my before mentioned PF capacitors. Supplier tried to tell me what size I need for each size motor, I went and did calculations and said no way, some applications maybe your size is right, but I want what I asked for as that is what the calculations tell me I need. Most all their recommended sizes were one or two standardized sizes larger than my calculations were coming up with.

 

[chazbolin]

I kind of think the grower is the one that is losing by not figuring out this information on their own. If they are really good horticulturist's they probably know their stuff, and don't rely on their suppliers to tell them what they need, as that will always favor the suppliers pockets first. It is that way in pretty much all industries.

You illustrate a good point in that you take a look at what your motors need and design PFC for that load. This is not the approach growers use since a very very small percentage of them understand the physics of light as pure energy and then are able to convert that information into plant usable intensities/spectrums that take into account the efficiencies of converting power into light. It is much simpler to rely on manufacturer statements and side on the higher watts = greater yields side of things.

Ultimately it will take guys like you to express these energy - light values that meet crop production (task) values without wasting energy in the process.

 

[kwired]

You illustrate a good point in that you take a look at what your motors need and design PFC for that load. This is not the approach growers use since a very very small percentage of them understand the physics of light as pure energy and then are able to convert that information into plant usable intensities/spectrums that take into account the efficiencies of converting power into light. It is much simpler to rely on manufacturer statements and side on the higher watts = greater yields side of things.

Ultimately it will take guys like you to express these energy - light values that meet crop production (task) values without wasting energy in the process.

In order to help a client with such issues you have to have some understanding of their needs. That is IMO what makes electricians in general (at least those that have any design involvement at all) much smarter then many other professionals, as it seems we have to understand the needs of our clients much more than many other professionals usually need to, and over a larger variety of applications as well. The diesel mechanic may understand diesel engines, may have some specific understanding of the effects of the use of it, but doesn't need to know much about a clients operation beyond the use of that piece of equipment. Electricians however just get involved in so many sub processes of the entire operation compared to most others.

 

[chazbolin]

In order to help a client with such issues you have to have some understanding of their needs. That is IMO what makes electricians in general (at least those that have any design involvement at all) much smarter then many other professionals, as it seems we have to understand the needs of our clients much more than many other professionals usually need to, and over a larger variety of applications as well. The diesel mechanic may understand diesel engines, may have some specific understanding of the effects of the use of it, but doesn't need to know much about a clients operation beyond the use of that piece of equipment. Electricians however just get involved in so many sub processes of the entire operation compared to most others.

I could not agree more. Often times it is the electricians and contractors that steer electrical design. What I'm describing in this thread is an extension of those skill sets. If the political winds are any indication these commercial growers are going to sprout up everywhere and one place that as usual should be a source of solid information, will be the electrical professionals that at least expose them to options as to what may be in their clients overall best interests.