Commercial Kitchen GFCI Requirement?

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Jimmy4645

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I'm a EE working on a fairly large commercial kitchen job. I was told by the owner that he does not want any of the outlets in the kitchen to be protected by GFCI espeially for refrigerators due to unwanted tripping. Does anyone know if ALL commercial kitchen outlets counter top or not require GFCI protection under the 2005 NEC? Thanks
 
Jimmy4645 said:
I'm a EE working on a fairly large commercial kitchen job. I was told by the owner that he does not want any of the outlets in the kitchen to be protected by GFCI espeially for refrigerators due to unwanted tripping. Does anyone know if ALL commercial kitchen outlets counter top or not require GFCI protection under the 2005 NEC? Thanks
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Yes, they are all required to be GFCI protected.

As for the owner, about the only thing you can tell him is "Too bad." Someone died in a commercial kitchen from faulty equipment and that's why the code rule is there.
 
Or see if anyone is making a fridge that can be hard wired , Or place them outside of the kitchen,.. And ,for what it's worth ,..there is no reason a fridge should cause a GFCI to trip..
 
Tell him to buy new equipment and get rid of his old, ground-fault-riddled stuff. He can afford it with the energy savings he'll realize.
 
Jimmy4645 said:
I'm a EE working on a fairly large commercial kitchen job. I was told by the owner that he does not want any of the outlets in the kitchen to be protected by GFCI espeially for refrigerators due to unwanted tripping. Does anyone know if ALL commercial kitchen outlets counter top or not require GFCI protection under the 2005 NEC? Thanks
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As the others have mentioned it is not a choice, hard wiring and equipment other then 15 and 20 amp 125 volt are the only ways around it.

However....

If the equipment is good it will not trip the GFCI.

Good design will place the GFCI device close to the load and have one GFCI device per load. Each load will have leakage current so the accumulative effects can be an issue.

Also now is the time to up sell temperature monitoring equipment. The equipment can be as cheap as $20 per unit for a basic alarm to more complicated systems that can send emails or make phone calls.

Temperatureguard
 
Man you guys make it sound so simple..you install GFCI breakers and owner does not see all thous cheap outlets and everything is fine..then show him Section 210.8(B)(2) requires all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt receptacles in non-dwelling-type kitchens to be GFCI protected. This requirement applies to all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt kitchen receptacles, whether or not the receptacle serves counter-top areas.

Accident data related to electrical incidents in non-dwelling kitchens reveal the presence of many hazards, including poorly maintained electrical apparatus, damaged electrical cords, wet floors, and employees without proper electrical safety training. Mandating some limited form of GFCI protection for high-hazard areas such as non-dwelling kitchens should help prevent electrical accidents. This requirement provides specific information on what is considered to be a commercial or institutional kitchen. A location with a sink and a portable cooking appliance (e.g., cord-and-plug-connected microwave oven) is not considered a commercial or institutional kitchen for the purposes of applying this requirement. Kitchens in restaurants, hotels, schools, churches, dining halls, and similar facilities are examples of the types of kitchens covered by this requirement.

explain that the breakers are by far superior then the outlets and when they trip they are sensing a real problem..he will not know the difference and you wont need to worry about the owner removing the outlets and replacing them with a regular outlets..which is what happens and someone gets hurt and you get dragged in and unless you have pictures to prove you did it correctly..you got to love our society..
 
In order to be UL Listed an appliance cannot leak more that .00075 amps (.75 milliamperes). A GFCI device will not trip until it sees .005 amps (5 milliamperes +/- 1 milliamp) so if an appliance trips a GFCI device it should be replaced. It is leaking voltage way, way beyond the UL standard.
 
cschmid said:
explain that the breakers are by far superior then the outlets and when they trip they are sensing a real problem..
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I can't explain that as IMO that is simply not true.

If it's up to me or when the job has engineered drawings we will use standard breakers and place a GFCI device at each outlet. (No Feed throughs)
 
iwire said:
If it's up to me or when the job has engineered drawings we will use standard breakers and place a GFCI device at each outlet. (No Feed throughs)
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I can see that if they're dedicated circuit receps, but what about GP circuits?
 
480sparky said:
I can see that if they're dedicated circuit receps, but what about GP circuits?
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In a home I would but most of our drawings on commercial jobs would not allow feed through or breakers.

They want the GFCI devices at each point of use even on a multiple outlet circuit
 
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iwire said:
I can't explain that as IMO that is simply not true.

If it's up to me or when the job has engineered drawings we will use standard breakers and place a GFCI device at each outlet. (No Feed throughs)
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I know there is no difference but if they are whining about GFCI already I can see where the outlets will end up..most owners are more Leary of working in panels then they are of changing an outlet..I also know they spec more outlets then they do breakers..outlets equal receptacles soooo sorry will get used to it..
 
Another whine you will get is when you tell them that the IG receptecales need the be GFCI protected too.

There is no exception in that code section.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Another whine you will get is when you tell them that the IG receptecales need the be GFCI protected too.

There is no exception in that code section.
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An occasional POS station is the only occurance I can see the 'need' for an IG recep.
 
480sparky said:
An occasional POS station is the only occurance I can see the 'need' for an IG recep.
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Do todays POS printers in a kitchen really need IG? I don't have IG on this computer and noise has never been a problem. If I wanted.... Whats that dear? Yes I'm cooking... No I'm not on the computer... Sure I'll serve you in the bedroom...

Alright, noise may be a problem but IG won't fix it.
 
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