commercial kitchen GFI

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markgabrielli

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I was wondering if someone could clear up how the definition of a kitchen is worded in NEC 2005 210.8(B) "other than dwelling units". This section references the installation of GFCI protection in commercial or industrial kitchens. It defines a kitchen as " an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food-preparation and cooking". The text also makes clear that a sink must be installed in the food-preparation area for this section to require GFCI protection of the receptacles in these areas. Okay, so my question is how far does that area extend, does the 6 foot rule apply as it does in a dwelling unit?
 
markgabrielli said:
Okay, so my question is how far does that area extend, does the 6 foot rule apply as it does in a dwelling unit?
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There is no '6 foot' rule for either dwelling units or non-dwelling unit kitchens.

For dwelling units

210.8(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and
20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in
(1) through (8) shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter
protection for personnel.

(6) Kitchens — where the receptacles are installed to serve
the countertop surfaces
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That is all of them serving the kitchen counter top regardless of the distance to water.


For non-dwellings

210.8(B) Other Than Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, singlephase,
15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations
specified in (1) through (5) shall have ground-fault
circuit-interrupter protection for personnel:


(2) Kitchens
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That is every one in the kitchen, there are no exceptions.
 
No 6' rule, it applies to all 120 volt receptacles in a commercial kitchen. Even the ones protecting the refrig or freezer with the thousands of dollars worth of Filet Mignon and lobster. ;)
 
As far as our requirement, using a fast food resturant as an example, we consider everthing behind the counter as "kitchen/food pre", other than places such as offices, walk-in's and what not.
 
infinity said:
No 6' rule, it applies to all 120 volt receptacles in a commercial kitchen. Even the ones protecting the refrig or freezer with the thousands of dollars worth of Filet Mignon and lobster. ;)
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The key word in the definition of a kitchen as per NEC - AREA


cowboyjwc said:
As far as our requirement, using a fast food resturant as an example, we consider everthing behind the counter as "kitchen/food pre", other than places such as offices, walk-in's and what not.
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The AHJ can determine, as Cowboyjwc has mentioned above, that the whole room may not be mandated as a kitchen, but an area/portion of it may be the kitchen.
 
iwire said:
The NEC does not use the word 'area' in either 210.8(A)(6) or 210.8(B)(2).
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I am not sure what you may be trying to say...


The requirements in 210.8(A) & (B) in regards to kitchen locations would not need to use the word 'area'. The word 'area' is part of the definition of kitchen and would be redundant.


Example:
Take a large house where there is a big room (we see this in vacation houses with large open floor plans). A kitchen is installed in an area of the big room. The whole room is not the kitchen, the area of the kitchen is the kitchen. How is that area to be determined? By the AHJ of course. :D
 
Thank you all for your replies, that is what i was expecting. It is up to the ahj afterall. We are currently wiring a hospital kitchen wich is approximately 100x100. A few countertops have sinks but quite a few adjacent to those don't.
 
markgabrielli said:
A few countertops have sinks but quite a few adjacent to those don't.
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The counter tops have no bearing on it, all the 125 volt 15 and 20 amp receptacles in a comercial kitchen must be GFCI protected.

Roger
 
I have dealt w/ AHJ's who'll let you slide on a commercial fridge w/o the use of GFCI protection. They have always asked for a single receptacle to be installed directly behind the appliance. All you can do is ask the question and see if your local AHJ will allow it. GFCI ona fridge/freezer is a bad idea in my opinion. At the very least, I would specify GFCI breaker rather than receptacle as these appliance are tough to move in the case you need to reset the button (although the device shouldn't trip unless there's a problem).
 
cdcengineer said:
At the very least, I would specify GFCI breaker rather than receptacle as these appliance are tough to move in the case you need to reset the button (although the device shouldn't trip unless there's a problem).
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The CB is a good idea for the reason that you've mentioned. But if there is a problem wouldn't you be better off having a GFCI trip so that you actually know that the problem exists?
 
cdcengineer said:
........ All you can do is ask the question and see if your local AHJ will allow it. ...............
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If they do 'let it slide', either get a signed, notarized letter from them, or make sure they have made such an amendment through proper adoption procedures.

If the inspector just says, 'Yeah, it's OK', and someone gets hurt later on, you're setting yourself up for a lawsuit.
 
i understand countertops have no bearing on the install of a gfi was only inquiring if anyone knew where the kitchen area started and ended. the ahj will obviously decide
 
cdcengineer said:
I have dealt w/ AHJ's who'll let you slide on a commercial fridge w/o the use of GFCI protection. They have always asked for a single receptacle to be installed directly behind the appliance. All you can do is ask the question and see if your local AHJ will allow it. GFCI ona fridge/freezer is a bad idea in my opinion.
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IIRC, a commercial refrigerator caused the very death that prompted the change.
 
As someone said, if they 'tell' you to let it 'slide' I would get something in writing to that effect!!

In our area, commercial freezers have to be monitored (which is cheap and inexpensive) with alarms if they have food in them, so if the temp start to go up, it would sound and someone will know.

Im told this 'argument' was presented when they tried to stop the requirement of gfcis in commercial kitchens, and it was found to not be adequate because of the monitoring of the commercial freezers, and the 'death' of the person that died because of it.
 
commercial kitchen GFCI's you never know what can happen in a commercial kitchen even if the inspector tells you you do not need them you are better off using them for everything:grin::roll:
 
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