commercial kitchens

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lmchenry

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Under the 2005 NEC would POS receptacles need gfci protection if the were around a food prep area. (and yes there is a sink in the same large kitchen area)?
 
If they are actually in the kitchen the answer is yes.

Roger
 
That is the problem. What do you consider in the kitchen? Is it the whole area where the food is prepared?
 
lmchenry said:
That is the problem. What do you consider in the kitchen? Is it the whole area where the food is prepared?
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2005 NECH said:
210.8(B)(2) Commercial and institutional kitchens?for the purposes of this section, a kitchen is an area with a sink and permanent facilities for food preparation and cooking.

Section 210.8(B)(2), which was new for the 2002 Code, requires all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt receptacles in nondwelling-type kitchens to be GFCI protected. This requirement applies to all 15- and 20-ampere, 125-volt kitchen receptacles, whether or not the receptacle serves countertop.

Accident data related to electrical incidents in nondwelling kitchens reveal the presence of many hazards, including poorly maintained electrical apparatus, damaged electrical cords, wet floors, and employees without proper electrical safety training. Mandating some limited form of GFCI protection for high-hazard areas such as nondwelling kitchens should help prevent electrical accidents. This requirement now provides specific information on what is considered to be a commercial or institutional kitchen. A location with a sink and a portable cooking appliance (e.g., cord-and-plug-microwave oven) is not considered a commercial kitchen for the purposes of applying this requirement. Kitchens in restaurants, hotels, schools, churches, dining halls, and similar facilities are examples of the types of kitchens covered by this requirement.
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Black is NEC/Blue is NECH (Not enforceable)

My opinion?
lmchenry said:
Under the 2005 NEC would POS receptacles need gfci protection if the were around a food prep area. (and yes there is a sink in the same large kitchen area)?
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Yes, GFCI protection is required.
 
I agree. I have a plan check now that is in for the second time. I finally had to ask the engineer what part of "all" was he having a problem with.

It makes no difference what the outlet is for, and they do make iso ground GFCI's (not cheap I'm sure).
 
celtic said:
Black is NEC/Blue is NECH (Not enforceable)

My opinion?
Yes, GFCI protection is required.
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I agree with celtic. :smile: I spoke with the State health department inspector about this two weeks ago and he's on the same page, too.
 
lmchenry said:
Is it the whole area where the food is prepared?
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IMO yes, although I wouldn't necessarily consider a serving line or salad bar part of the kitchen

Roger
 
lmchenry said:
Under the 2005 NEC would POS receptacles need gfci protection if the were around a food prep area. (and yes there is a sink in the same large kitchen area)?
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Yes they would need gfi protection. Are you questioning an install of IG receps usually associated with POS equipment by chance?
 
lmchenry said:
Yes, you are correct.
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I had an exact situation on a set of drawings recently where the note said (as does NEC code) all kitchen receps 15 or 20 125v had to be gfi protected. Well the prints also speced IG receps for POS equipment in the kitchen. The only way to do both was to keep the IG receps and protect them with GFI breaker. That of course was a change order for us. :)
 
chevyx92 said:
I had an exact situation on a set of drawings recently where the note said (as does NEC code) all kitchen receps 15 or 20 125v had to be gfi protected. Well the prints also speced IG receps for POS equipment in the kitchen. The only way to do both was to keep the IG receps and protect them with GFI breaker. That of course was a change order for us. :)
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I was inspecting a job the other day and they had IG GFCI receptecales. They did say that they were special order.
 
cowboyjwc said:
I was inspecting a job the other day and they had IG GFCI receptecales. They did say that they were special order.
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Maybe the EC just painted the triangle on standard ones. :grin:
 
cowboyjwc said:
I was inspecting a job the other day and they had IG GFCI receptecales. They did say that they were special order.
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I didn't know they existed. Wonder how pricey they are? As a matter of fact, I recall checking with supply houses about such an animal and was told they don't exist.
 
we recently did a commercial kitchen, the question we ran into (along the same lines, what is a kitchen...) is "does the dish washing room count as a part of the kitchen?"

We went by the plan and didn't put gfi's in the cleanup room, except where they came within 6' of the edge of a sink.

It hasn't been inspected yet, I'll let you know what they say.... :D
 
jerm said:
we recently did a commercial kitchen, the question we ran into (along the same lines, what is a kitchen...) is "does the dish washing room count as a part of the kitchen?"

We went by the plan and didn't put gfi's in the cleanup room, except where they came within 6' of the edge of a sink.

It hasn't been inspected yet, I'll let you know what they say.... :D
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Please do, I am curious to what the inspector says???
 
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