Complete Rewires

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Big D 40

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I had an argument with a friend of mine who happens to be a master electrician as well. His feeling is that when an EXISTING home is totally rewired that you are only obligated by code to wire it to the standard that it was origionally wired to. What he means is the wiring doesn't have to follow the standard of a new homes requirements...(ie. arc faults in bedrooms, outlet spacing requirements, hardwired smoke detectors)
I am curious to get everyone elses take on this.
Thanks
 
Any work installed today must meet todays code.

Or actually must meet the code that was enforce when the permit was pulled.
 
Having done many rewires, I would have to say that it would be virtually impossible to wire some of these older homes ( meaning wire installed in the walls without wiremold) to code standards of outlet placement. And most customers do not want all of the outlets
 
Yes, if you're completely rewiring a home, you do it to the current code in force in your area. If it's a bathroom remodel, you bring that bathroom up to code. You can still add a receptacle in the living room without needing to bring the whole living room up to code and rope hardwired smokes throughout the house. :)
 
so in other words if a whole rewire is done then it would be wired as if it were a new home?! Again I find it hard to believe that anyone is rewiring a 50 to 100 year old home to current standards of a new home..unless you are willing to tear out walls or ceilings. Many homes are plaster over brick and you can not fish in these walls. And if the home owner says no to wire mold then what do you do?
 
Big D 40 said:
so in other words if a whole rewire is done then it would be wired as if it were a new home?! Again I find it hard to believe that anyone is rewiring a 50 to 100 year old home to current standards of a new home..unless you are willing to tear out walls or ceilings. Many homes are plaster over brick and you can not fish in these walls. And if the home owner says no to wire mold then what do you do?
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Let me enlighten you, brother. My company does 80-90% old work. We completely re-wire hundres of old homes each year. They all meet current code when we are done. Very rarely do we need to tear out anything. Most often, you'll never know we were there.
 
how much wire mold do you use? What do you do about those brick and plaster walls and how do you force the placement of outlets on a customer who does not want them where the code tells you they should be? I have had customers tell me not to bore holes in their rafters for God's sake. So unless you are Hodini or God you must have great PR!
 
Big D 40 said:
how much wire mold do you use? What do you do about those brick and plaster walls and how do you force the placement of outlets on a customer who does not want them where the code tells you they should be? I have had customers tell me not to bore holes in their rafters for God's sake. So unless you are Hodini or God you must have great PR!
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Very rarely do we need Wiremold, but it is a truck stock item. Old work is a whole different set of skills, I must tell you. For plaster on brick without using wiremold, a box recessed in the mop board is one approach. Floor rated recs is another.
 
Then your approach is not to NEW home specs if you are placing receptacles in the floors or base boards. I am not trying to argue but I have been in enough of these homes (by the way is 90% of my business as well) to know that these old homes do take different approaches.
 
We also do alot of rewire everything we do meets our local codes we do however try to work with customers as much as possible. For instance if an existing room has one outlet (very common) we will at least install one outlet on every wall on arcfaults. in other words the code may require 6 but the home owner dosn't want that many so as a minimum we install 4. But in kitchens bathrooms, ect. we dont make exceptions. We also are required here to install hardwired interconnected smokes on these jobs. Again we try to work with the customer as much as possible but to a degree. If they actualy need a rewire they dont have too much of an option here. Also i agree when were done you'll never know we were there its not easy but in most cases it can be done.
 
Big D 40 said:
Then your approach is not to NEW home specs if you are placing receptacles in the floors or base boards.
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Now you're bringing out the fight in me. Stop it. It is absolutely code compliant to put a receptacle in a base board or to use a floor rated rec. You need explain what you mean by "new home specs" if you're not talking about the NEC. I started out trying to be helpful, but now I've got my dukes up.
 
Most of my work is old work also, There are always a few walls you can't get to, but the way are inspectors look at it is, "Better than what is was" You really can't force a homeowner to spend money on bringing everything up to code... At least when it is old work...
 
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There are new homes with the receptacles in the baseboards. The reason that it's not normally done is because it cost more ( takes more time ). The NEC tells you where a receptacle must go. The Specs. tell you where they are wanted ( by the builder or homeowner ).
 
100 per cent to current code (Local Rules, not necessarily exactly NEC), no matter how "old" the house is. And I don't care if the wiring has to be on the surface, then thats were it is going to go. And Ark-faults, And gfi's, and two cir min for kitchen countertops, and on and on and on. By the way, work is work, but I wouldn't mind it if I never have to do another, but that is a total pipe dream I just know it. :)
 
I can and do force the homeowner to put in anything that is nessesary to bring the house up to currect NEC or they do not pass final inspection. It doesn't matter what the homeowner wants or doesn't want. No tickey, no shirtey.
 
To be honest many homes get a somewhat less than total rewire. The EC will pull a permit for a service upgrade and after the inspector leaves they just do what they want. I have been to homes where the homeowner think they have had a total rewire but they still have 50% old wiring. The inspection department sent out a notice that if you use the words rewire on the permit or the contract then it means 100%. It is my understanding that some contractors were taken to court and made to finish the job they had started ( A COMPLETE REWIRE ).
 
growler said:
The inspection department sent out a notice that if you use the words rewire on the permit or the contract then it means 100%. It is my understanding that some contractors were taken to court and made to finish the job they had started ( A COMPLETE REWIRE ).
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Yeah, I got dinged that way not even a month ago. My proposal said "rewire first floor". I didn't run a new 3-wire for the stairway lights to the upstairs 3 way switch from the switch on the first floor. That didn't fly.
 
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