Computer and device issues related to problematic grounding currents?

[Sesh]

Does voltage ever drop enough the UPS takes over or at least beeps because it took over even if only for brief time?

Everything I am reading still says bad neutral or at least intermittently bad. What you don't know is if in your main panel, in your meter socket, at your service drop connection, or at some utility company connection anywhere between your service and the source transformer. If neighbor is on same transformer you both might be effected by same bad connection.

Best way to make this show itself is to load the system, but in an unbalanced fashion as in introduce high amount of 120 volt load to only one side of the 120/240 supply and then watch voltage as you load it.

If neighbor is on same transformer and the bad connection is in a common point ahead of both of you, his load balancing and your load balancing combine for an overall balance effect beyond whatever point is bad.

One other thing that maybe not too likely but not impossible - really long undersized utility conductors between utility transformer and your point of connection and/or undersized utility transformer for the load served. If you have several neighbors all on same transformer and it is undersized for the demand - you all will suffer voltage sags when loading is high but this will effect all loads not just line to neutral loads.

Voltage has never dropped for the UPS to take over, no beeps no nothing. The LEDs on the front report all good for voltage. Can I measure the voltage at an outlet when I load the system in an unbalanced fashion or do I need to do it at the main panel?

 

[kwired]

Voltage has never dropped for the UPS to take over. Can I measure the voltage at an outlet when I load the system in an unbalanced fashion or do I need to do it at the main panel?

Kind of getting into DIY advice which isn't permitted here. I will just say that with a bad neutral the voltages are balanced if the load is balanced. If load is unbalanced with a bad neutral voltage to neutral goes up on one line and down on the other how much depends on how unbalanced loading is.

Long undersized supply line can also produce some of this kind of behavior even though nothing is wrong other than it is long and undersized for what it is supplying.

 

[hillbilly1]

If you are intermittently having issues with your oven then you either have an oven issue or you have a problem with one of the phases. This could be a power company issue or a panel issue. Are you having trouble with other 240v equipment? If so then it is definitely a problem on one phase. I would check the voltage at the panel with everything on that you can think of and see if there is a drop in the voltage

I'm with you on this one, the oven elements are generally straight 240 volt, so a neutral issue shouldn't affect the preheating. Sesh, has a fall of potential test been performed on the main breaker?

 

[Sesh]

Had not realized kwired thanks.

No fall of potential test performed yet. Will a standard electrician be able to preform that?

My electrician said the same about a neutral issue affecting the oven. And yet it behaves erratically in line with the other electronics in the home.

 

[hillbilly1]

Had not realized kwired thanks.

No fall of potential test performed yet. Will a standard electrician be able to preform that?

My electrician said the same about a neutral issue affecting the oven. And yet it behaves erratically in line with the other electronics in the home.

Yes.

 

[zbang]

The problems interfering with devices is always present, but to varying degrees. The Wifi and stove "work" they just display strange intermittent behaivor that I have not been able to correlate with anything.

Not sure on radio transmitters. No radar sites, airports or airbases nearby.

Within 30+ miles?

Unmentioned is the possibilty of underground power or utility lines.

Please better descrive the symptoms- for instance, a laptop display pretty much cannot "go blurry", nor is it likely that anything but a really strong external field would affect how a mouse or keyboard works. And if there was a strong enough field, you'd probably notice other things moving or vibrating

This is the gas range stove: https://www.subzero-wolf.com/wolf/ranges/gas-range/36-inch-gas-range-6-burners
It has been checked by a technician and my electrician took a peak at it but could not conclude anything. The interesting thing is after we had the meter base and mast replaced (neutral feeder) it preheats more reliably now.

For a gas stove, this makes little sense; either the burner is on or it's off.

 

[synchro]

It's possible that the microprocessor controls of the gas stove could be goofing up if there's sufficient interference or power quality issues on the 120V line and neutral conductors.

 

[Netpog]

It's possible that the microprocessor controls of the gas stove could be goofing up if there's sufficient interference or power quality issues on the 120V line and neutral conductors.

In addition to control electronics, that range's oven has convection heating and infrared broiler heat. Can't tell from the specs whether either of those is involved in preheating, but if so that'd be another 120 volt sensitivity.

Which does nothing to explain the problems when his laptop or PC are on [UPS] battery-only.

Say, got any large motors in that house? Might the rainy-weather impact be due to a sump pump that's radiating crazy EMF? (Although wouldn't your tri-meter pick that up?)

I'm tempted to suggest looking at your power with an oscilloscope, but you've issues when on battery, so nevermind that.

CONCLUSION: If the voltage on either phase is showing 120v and there's no extra EMF, even when the symptoms are at their worse, then we've got to consider demonic possession.

Was your house built on ancient holy grounds? Was the previous owner undead, or an insurance-company's litigation attorney?

Where are you located? If you're in the tri-state area, I can recommend you a good shaman.

 

[Sesh]

Within 30+ miles?

Unmentioned is the possibilty of underground power or utility lines.

Please better descrive the symptoms- for instance, a laptop display pretty much cannot "go blurry", nor is it likely that anything but a really strong external field would affect how a mouse or keyboard works. And if there was a strong enough field, you'd probably notice other things moving or vibrating



For a gas stove, this makes little sense; either the burner is on or it's off.

Electric oven. The gas stove top has no issues.

The symptons as far as display is concerned is extreme screen tearing and blurry moment on displays, its almost like the bit rate is severely reduced and there is hitching in any game or video.

I understand that it seems unlikely but seeing all of my devices malfunction in this way at this home compared to my friends and others is really strange. I lived in another house 2 years back and never had any of these issues.

I too would like to see oscilloscope readings here. I just do not possess the know how to operate one. There may be an airport within 30miles. I thought you meant fairly closeby.

 

[kwired]

I'm with you on this one, the oven elements are generally straight 240 volt, so a neutral issue shouldn't affect the preheating. Sesh, has a fall of potential test been performed on the main breaker?

Element won't be affected but a 120 volt master controller certainly can be.

 

[kwired]

Gas stove tops usually only use power for igniter. Once lit the control knob is nothing more than a manual valve to regulate gas flow and should continue to burn as long as there is gas supply and even if power is lost.

 

[hillbilly1]

Does your neighbor have a CB? Not seen that much any more, but if they have a linear amp, it can play havoc with electronics when they are keyed up. Big antenna(s) in the backyard are a give away!

 

[hillbilly1]

Element won't be affected but a 120 volt master controller certainly can be.

I thought about that too, but if it is a standalone oven, it’s straight 240. OP said separate gas cooktop.

 

[kwired]

I thought about that too, but if it is a standalone oven, it’s straight 240. OP said separate gas cooktop.

Wall oven can still have 120 controls. Don't know how common it is. Many probably do have a 120 volt interior light and therefore do utilize a neutral conductor though. I think it is more common for electric cooktop to not have a neutral in the supply conductors than for ovens.

 

[hbiss]

Please better descrive the symptoms- for instance, a laptop display pretty much cannot "go blurry", nor is it likely that anything but a really strong external field would affect how a mouse or keyboard works. And if there was a strong enough field, you'd probably notice other things moving or vibrating

This is the gas range stove: https://www.subzero-wolf.com/wolf/ranges/gas-range/36-inch-gas-range-6-burners
It has been checked by a technician and my electrician took a peak at it but could not conclude anything. The interesting thing is after we had the meter base and mast replaced (neutral feeder) it preheats more reliably now.

A whole boatload of vague and unsubstantiated interpretations of problems that cannot possibly be attributed to one cause. We have a policy to never take a customer's description of a problem seriously, ALWAYS see it for yourself. We can't do that here obviously. Customers tend to imagine that things happen, how and when they happen or are somehow related.

The problem with your laptop, it happens when on batteries also. I would say that your laptop is crapping out. But you say it doesn't do it at another house and your other computers do the same thing also. Not saying that I don't believe you, but I want to see that!

By the way, that Wolf/Sub Zero range you claim to have has a gas convection oven. Do you not have the DF335 duel fuel instead? Google shows lots of bad reviews for Wolf as is my opinion of them. Ovens taking a long time to temp seems to be a common problem.

I do have cable TV/Internet. I had an ISP tech come out before all of the power troubleshooting to see about the intermittent outages and when he hooked up his tablet device he said there was current on the coax. Said it was the power companies fault and to contact them- which then lead to all the rest. He also measured two HDMIs going from each cable box to the TVs and found 15V on both. No idea how he measured that but he said he had seen it before and it was a POCO problem... I tried placing some ferrite cores on the coax at the ISP drop and my mouse on my desktop actually track differently. Its kind of bizarre.

Have to keep in mind that cable techs are not usually the sharpest tool in the shed and good luck trying to find a sharp one. Current on a cable drop can very well be caused by a missing, deteriorated or improper ground bond between their cable out on the pole and the POCO neutral running above it. The water main, POCO neutral and the cable messenger strand along with the cable sheath are all in parallel and, if all are not bonded together properly, currents can divide in weird ways resulting in abnormal current on the drop. There have been reports of houses that lost their service neutral relying on the cable drop to provide the neutral until the problem was discovered.

My opinion is that you have multiple problems having nothing to do with each other. You are trying to find a common denominator where there is none.

-Hal

 

[Sesh]

Does your neighbor have a CB? Not seen that much any more, but if they have a linear amp, it can play havoc with electronics when they are keyed up. Big antenna(s) in the backyard are a give away!

Nothing that I can see, and they are all older doubt any are running a CB and large antennas.

 

[Sesh]

A whole boatload of vague and unsubstantiated interpretations of problems that cannot possibly be attributed to one cause. We have a policy to never take a customer's description of a problem seriously, ALWAYS see it for yourself. We can't do that here obviously. Customers tend to imagine that things happen, how and when they happen or are somehow related.

The problem with your laptop, it happens when on batteries also. I would say that your laptop is crapping out. But you say it doesn't do it at another house and your other computers do the same thing also. Not saying that I don't believe you, but I want to see that!

By the way, that Wolf/Sub Zero range you claim to have has a gas convection oven. Do you not have the DF335 duel fuel instead? Google shows lots of bad reviews for Wolf as is my opinion of them. Ovens taking a long time to temp seems to be a common problem.



Have to keep in mind that cable techs are not usually the sharpest tool in the shed and good luck trying to find a sharp one. Current on a cable drop can very well be caused by a missing, deteriorated or improper ground bond between their cable out on the pole and the POCO neutral running above it. The water main, POCO neutral and the cable messenger strand along with the cable sheath are all in parallel and, if all are not bonded together properly, currents can divide in weird ways resulting in abnormal current on the drop. There have been reports of houses that lost their service neutral relying on the cable drop to provide the neutral until the problem was discovered.

My opinion is that you have multiple problems having nothing to do with each other. You are trying to find a common denominator where there is none.

-Hal

Duly noted, I may be completely wrong about the oven and its causes. We had a technician come and check it out and he said it was all good. The reason I mention the oven is that after having the meter base and mast replaced the oven actually reliably preforms better. Nothing conclusive of course but I thought I should mention it. When we first got the oven (8-9 years ago) it had zero issues preheating for many years.

Yes my laptop does not preform like this at my friends house. I have also noted that the problems are consistently worst when the amperage on the waterline is higher (increased EMF as a result) for the laptop particularly. The desktop still has all of the issues with low amperage.

The tech may not be the sharpest but he seemed to know what to check (HDMIs for voltage). It was just another bit of information I felt I should offer- again nothing conclusive. We have had the bond checked multiple times. Replaced all connections and cables as well.

I am tech savvy as far as computers go and I know my devices are not operating like they do at other locations. Placing ferrite cores on virtually any cable should not notably and observably affect the performance of the devices in the multiple ways I have talked about. I am confident there is some level of interference to my devices here. Maybe the oven is not related to this however there is clearly an issue. I completely understand the skepticism as it does not really add up into a picture that makes sense. There could certainly be multiple problems happening but there is clearly one thing affecting my computers preformance across many many different hardware variations. Thanks for the reply!

 

[hbiss]

Placing ferrite cores on virtually any cable should not notably and observably affect the performance of the devices in the multiple ways I have talked about. I am confident there is some level of interference to my devices here.

Let's focus on this situation. Something like that would indicate an extremely strong RF field. That's not something that would be caused by electrical problems or anything accidental. Nobody asked when did you first notice this problem and if there was anything going on at the time out of the ordinary in the vicinity of your house. Something like a new cell tower, new 5G "hot spots" hung off the cable lines out on the street. (No, I'm not anti 5G in the least.)

About the only way to put this to rest is to have someone with an RF spectrum analyzer do some measurements (all the way up to 4 or 5 Ghz) in and around your house to see if there is anything there. That would also tell you if anything is coming FROM any of your equipment too.

-Hal

 

[synchro]

I agree with Hal that a spectrum analyzer is the only definitive way to confirm and isolate the cause of what appears to be RF interference.

For the OP, have you changed the screen refresh rates of your laptops and monitors/desktops to see if there's a noticeable difference with respect to the problem you're seeing? In other words, 60Hz, 70Hz, 75Hz, etc.

 

[Sesh]

Let's focus on this situation. Something like that would indicate an extremely strong RF field. That's not something that would be caused by electrical problems or anything accidental. Nobody asked when did you first notice this problem and if there was anything going on at the time out of the ordinary in the vicinity of your house. Something like a new cell tower, new 5G "hot spots" hung off the cable lines out on the street. (No, I'm not anti 5G in the least.)

About the only way to put this to rest is to have someone with an RF spectrum analyzer do some measurements (all the way up to 4 or 5 Ghz) in and around your house to see if there is anything there. That would also tell you if anything is coming FROM any of your equipment too.

-Hal

I moved away for several years and moved back to this house a little over a year ago. No idea when exactly it all started beyond that. Been trying to figure out whats changed since. No new cell towers or 5G hot spots that I know of. Pretty sure this city has not installed any of those yet (I am not anti 5G either). I have a Tri Field TF2 and it is not picking up any heavy RF fields that I can see although I am not sure what are normal levels.

I have unplugged most everything I can and powered off the home entirely and the issues are still apparent via multiple laptops on battery. What type of RF spectrum analyzer could I pickup to see?